30A 250v plug

   / 30A 250v plug #1  

Brushhill dave

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So how big a machine can I get away with buying? I just want something to handle light repairs nothing professional. So what can this plug handle? Thanks for any help.
Dave
 
   / 30A 250v plug #2  
That's a different approach, buy the plug first then buy a machine to work on it. :D
Guess I've been doing things wrong all these years. I buy the machine first, then the wire and plug to work with the machine.
 
   / 30A 250v plug #3  
Well, That is interesting,, BUT,, about a 150 amp inverter machine.. My Everlest PA160 is supposed to draw 31 amps flat out... I have never run it over 140 amps on a 1/8 7014. so something less than 30 amps I would suppose. I used a 50 amp breaker, No 6 wire and a 50 amp plug. You can weld a lot with the PA160. I assume you have a dryer plug or something like that you already have installed, and don't want to rewire/replug?

James K0UA
 
   / 30A 250v plug
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Sorry I should have started by saying that I have about 6 of these same plugs that were existing and used by the former owner of the farm for his bin dryers. I am in the rebuilding phase of the yard and was hoping to take advantage of these plugs. I am not looking to weld anything greater than 1/2" at the most. I am a field boilermaker by trade and all of my expirence has been with portable machines.
 
   / 30A 250v plug #5  
There are a lot of qualifications in answering that question. If your duty cycle is modest and you are not running the machine at its maximum output, a 30 amp 220 circuit will allow a pretty wide range of activities. For more than a dozen years I powered a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC buzz box with a 30 amp circuit and I never tripped the breaker. I typically ran an 1/8" 6010 rod or 1/8" 7018 rod and glued some fairly thick material together. Lately I have switched to an Everlast 250ex inverter welder. Again when I stick weld it is typically with 1/8" rods. Tig welding is when I tend to push it the hardest as I will set the max output in the 180 amp range, strike off and floor it to get a puddle formed and then back off. I have been welding 1/4" - 1/2" thick material and so far I have not tripped the 30 amp breaker. The 250ex draws something like 47 amps at full bore so I know a 30 amp breaker is going to trip if I were to really push my TIG welding for long periods of time. Most recently I built a bead buster so I could get the tractor tire off the rim. The tire had fluid in it, calcium chloride and it leaked. Lots of rust and nastiness. The bead breaker was a recycling effort, I welded 2 chunks of 4 inch I beam together, added a piece of 4 inch channel, a short piece of lesser I beam and chunks of thick walled square tubing. I ran 6010 as well as TIG welding on that project. Inverters don't really like 6010 but with a little extra fiddling I got some decent welds, not a stack of dimes but solid enough. I did some TIG welding on the rim which is a load of giggles when the parent material is thinner than you thought due to the corrosion.

gordon

DSCF0320 (Medium).JPG
 
   / 30A 250v plug #6  
Please note: I am not an electrician or an electrical professional. Please defer to electricians who disagree with me on this topic.

One thing to keep in mind is that the NEC allows you to derate the wire gauge that feeds a receptacle if the receptacle is only ever used for an intermittent-use appliance like a welder. This is because the welder's duty cycle is less than 100%, so the heat that it puts into the wiring will be less than if it was something like an electric motor, which is basically 100% duty cycle. The relevant table of the NEC is 630.11(A):

NOTr9.png

So let's say you have a welder that draws 50 amps at max output, and has a 30% duty cycle at max output. The multiplier for 30% duty cycle is 0.55. So you could size your conductor as if it was 50 * 0.55, or 27.5 amps. The wires in your wall are sized for 30 amps load. 30 amps is greater than 27.5 amps, so you would be good to go to put a 50-amp receptacle and 50-amp breaker on that circuit, as long as that breaker only feeds that one receptacle and the circuit is only ever used for that welder and not anything else. If your welder drew 40 amps at max output, you could go up to a 50% duty cycle, since the multiplier for 50% duty cycle is 0.71. 40 amps * 0.71 = 28.4, which is less than the 30-amp wires that are presumably in your wall.

Please note that with older transformer-style welders, it is entirely up to you to obey the duty cycle. Newer and higher-end welders have thermal protection circuits that enforce the duty cycle by shutting down the welder if you exceed it. Older ones will just let you burn them up. And if you've used the NEC "multiplier" to derate your in-wall wiring, you may overheat and burn that up too. Play safe!

You are probably going to want to put a 50 amp receptacle on the wall anyway, since the standard plug for a 220v welder is a 6-50. Swapping the 30-amp receptacle for a 50-amp receptacle will be much cheaper than building/buying a pigtail to adapt the welder's plug to the 30 amp receptacle.
 
   / 30A 250v plug #7  
To answer your question directly, you can probably get away with an inverter-based welder in the 140-160 amp output range. To be sure, just look at the owner's manual of the welder (usually available online), and they will have a table like this:

welder input.png

This table will give you the welder's amp draw at max output. Based on that, and based on the welder's duty cycle at max amps, and using the NEC multiplier table, you can choose a welder that will work with the wiring you have in your building.
 
   / 30A 250v plug
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thanks everybody for your advice
 
   / 30A 250v plug
  • Thread Starter
#9  
The topic came up at work and a couple of the welders I work with told me I can pick up an Everlast machine with a plasma built in already for a good price. Just have to find a dealer here in western Canada.
 
   / 30A 250v plug #10  
There is a Canadian Everlast dealer who was on the forum recently. I'm sure he'll be in touch.
 

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