3rd Function Valve Install Questions

[Phantese]

HI,
A few questions to those who have done this without a kit, I'm using parts I bought at Princess Auto (DO3) valve, some hoses they made up and I'm going to fit in a 30A DPDT rocker switch to the handle of my Kioti DK 4210SE, for the grapple. my question is a bit of a simple one, by sight, which connection on the SCV is the Power Beyond, I see the 4 lines to the loader, the Pump and the Tank lines, but was wondering which line is identified as the PB?
1. I have a backhoe installed (from factory rear port, don't want to use these for the grapple) so I'm guessing PB supplies this, so I can follow that line correct?
2. Also I remove that line runs from the SCV to the backhoe supply (rear ports) and run a line from that connection on the SCV to the DO3 valve (pump in) and run the DO3 outlet (T) tank port to where the PB tied into the rear remotes from the SCV to the backhoe supply?
3. I wasn't going to add a relay to the switch as it's a 30A DPDT but I always worry about these switches heating up with frequent use, but I can always add one on after the fact if this happens.

Sorry these are the best pic I could find

Thoughts?

 

[ericm979]

There should be 7 lines on the loader valve. Four work ports, in, tank, and PB.

Yes you put the new valve in between the loader's PB and the rear remote valve as you describe.

Some hydraulic valves don't have PB, just an in and out and work ports. Those need to have their out port rated for full system pressure if there are valves down stream from them.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

There should be 7 lines on the loader valve. Four work ports, in, tank, and PB.

Yes you put the new valve in between the loader's PB and the rear remote valve as you describe.

Some hydraulic valves don't have PB, just an in and out and work ports. Those need to have their out port rated for full system pressure if there are valves down stream from them.

7 ports is right if there is a PB port. If there is it is on the side we can't see. Not a Kioti guy but if there is no PB port then the FEL is the end of the line. You will then need to put the grapple system ahead of the P port and connect between the new valve PB and the existing P.

Here is where the shop manual is gold. It will have a diagram you an trace the system out. Based on other threads in the past the FEL being the end of the line is common.

Ron

 

[ericm979]

Most grapple valves don't have PB, just in, out and work ports. That's ok though. It's not required for valve A in a chain A -> B to have PB. But A's out port needs to be rated for full system pressure, and not all are.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

If we are going to armchair design this system; additional info would really help such as:
- Flow diagram of the tractor hydraulic system, from the shop manual
- flow diagram for the new valve (assume it is a solenoid type), should have been with the new valve

For a solenoid type there will be no PB needed as the circuit it interrupts; already, either has a PB to the next valve in line and/or the return to tank (T).

Ron

 

[N2DFire]

If the DK series is anything like the CK series then somewhere off the loader valve will be a painted gray hard line running to the rear of the tractor (on the inboard side like Tractor Seabee said).

It will "bolt" in to the rear end housing somewhere (Banjo type fittings on both ends) - this is the PB from the loader and it runs the rear remotes (SCV's) and then the internal 3pt lift on the tractor.

You'll have to replace this hard line with hoses & fittings to get to the P and T ports on your D03 Sub-plate. (loader valve to sub-plate P and sub-plate T to rear of tractor).


Here's my write-up from my do-it-yourself method. It won't be a step-by-step How-to guide but it should get you started.


Best of luck & enjoy the grapple.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I wonder what is the advantage of the sub plate valve vs a simple diverter. The diverter does not require PB or tank return lines. Two lines go in (for instance from the curl function) and four lines go out (two continue on to the curl cylinders and two for the grapple cylinders). If all that is needed is to control a grapple, seems to me the diverter would do it. There must be a reason to use the sub plate but I haven't figured it out.

 

[RNeumann]

I wonder what is the advantage of the sub plate valve vs a simple diverter. The diverter does not require PB or tank return lines. Two lines go in (for instance from the curl function) and four lines go out (two continue on to the curl cylinders and two for the grapple cylinders). If all that is needed is to control a grapple, seems to me the diverter would do it. There must be a reason to use the sub plate but I haven't figured it out.

Curl, grapple and raise/lower at the same time. I wouldn’t be without my third function. I also bump the curl and change blade angle when pushing snow.

 

[ericm979]

The true 3rd function can be a subplate or non subplate. Subplate is most common though. Third function theoretically would allow you to move the loader and operate the grapple at the same time. But in practice that depends on the loader valve (some dump to tank when operating) and on the loads on the cylinders being close enough to equal that both sets of cylinders would move at the same time. The true 3rd function has two switches or a rocker and is only closed or open- no feathering.

The diverter has only one button. Since it uses the curl circuit you can't curl and operate the grapple at the same time. The joystick side to side now has two functions depending if the button is pressed. The diverter can be plumbed in on the loader itself, simplfying hose routing. The diverter lets you feather the grapple.

I'm currently running my grapple off an SCV mounted near the loader joystick. I can feather the grapple but I've never wanted to.

Either diverter or 3rd function will work, it just depends on your particular needs.

 

[downsizingnow48]

OK I think I got it. I have not used a sub plate valve.

I have a standard directional control valve mounted on the left fender for the grapple. I operate the grapple with my left hand, and joystick loader functions with the right hand in the normal way. I am seldom in a hurry but sometimes it is helpful to work both at the same time.

I also have a diverter valve, which is normally (non-energized) set to run the grapple about 99% of the time. When I energize the diverter it operates the SSQA hyd cylinders. That is only used to drop off or pick up FEL attachments, so simultaneous operation is not necessary.

Thanks for the info, very helpful.