4120...some questions

[jimg]

Hi,
I usually hang out in the NH forum but have been looking at a new (bigger) tractor for a new home. In my searching I thought Id take another look at all the major players. Naturally the first dealer I hit was NH and really liked him a lot. The visit was mostly to find out what the dealership was like and get pricing. I was pretty sure what I wanted before I visited. To say Im predisposed to NH is an understatment. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Anyway to be complete I also visited the JD dealer. Sales was about what I expected (or equivalent to what I get back home)....lousy. However, after reading the literature on the 20 series I must say that this machine series is impressive...at least on paper. Its certainly a case of the machine selling itself. So, this coming Sat Im going back for a test ride. Im only interested in a machine w/ the 12x12PS transmission and thats what my questions are about. Does anyone have a 20 series w/ this transmission? The salesman said despite it being PS you have to use the clutch...I think this is wrong b/c why have a PS if you have to clutch. Is he giving correct infos? Is there any detrement to not using the clutch? He also said you must come to a complete stop before shifting. Again this would seem to negate having a PS. Sadly the sales blurb doesnt really talk about the PS in substantive terms. Is there a way to program the shuttle? That is, can you change its slow down/start up sequence to vary from abrupt to gentle? On the engine I asked what the diff was between the various models b/c the engine looks the same. He said its a diff head in each model that determines the hp output. I know theres been some speculation in this forum about that. Has anyone heard this explanation before and what do you think? The loader looks to give the same performance thru out the model line as well. I would have expected a stronger loader at the top end. I just found it odd b/c this is unlike any other CUT line Im familiar w/....just an observation. Also the salesman had no clue how the loader went on/off. He just knew it was very easy. Can anyone give a better description...as in how the thing releases so you can take if off. I figure its like all others once it unlocks. Id like to try that Sat as well. So, before my test ride is there anything I should look for...things that you found particularly good or bad w/ this machine? Id like to try it out as completely as possible. Also, by way of comment/observation, doing 'preflight' checks is very easy on this machine. It looks to be very well designed in that respect. thanx jimg

One more thing thing. I got a pkg price (tractor and implements) and was amazed at how expensive the MX6 was. Its priced at $1K more than a med duty Woods (price from the NH dealer). Is this mower really that much better?

jimg

 

[creeper]

You should get another salesman.There not all like that,in my area the salesman are very knowledgable about there products. If he can't even tell you how the loader comes off, I would certainly deal with someone else.

 

[timb]

Sheesh. You definitely need a new salesman if not a new dealer altogether.

Far as I know the 4000-Twenty series PS is the exact same tranny as on the big 4000-Tens. You do have to clutch to shift the 4-speed (syncro) box (you do NOT need to stop, it's a syncro). You have to clutch and come to a stop to change actual ranges (non-syncro range box). You do NOT have to clutch to change direction (that's the whole point to the power shuttle), and you do not have to come to a complete stop to do so (although I only do this at low speed myself).

The head in the 4120 is part #RE506335. The same exact head is used throughout the 4000-Twenty series. Using JDParts I've never been able to find a single part# difference in the entire engine.

The loader is the same because all the 4000-Twenties are the same size, weight, and have the same hydraulic performance. They are essentially identical tractors with different fuel pump settings.

You need to look very close at the actual specs of the MX6 - deck sheet metal thickness (don't forget the double layer), side sheet thickness, depth, blade size, and gearbox hp rating, along with the tail wheel size/type. Throw in the (included) chains all around and the slip clutch and you'll typically find at the usual minor discount (15% off list or so, plus JD usually has some multi-implement purchase additional rebate) the MX6 is actually priced fairly competively with most truely comparable cutters with the same features.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Great answers.
I would call the dealership and find out if they have any real salesman, or use the dealer locator on Deere.com to see if there are any that want to sell you a tractor. This guy just wants to sell you a hydro, and doesn't know a thing about his product.

Here is the 4000 TWENTY owners manual. You can check lots of things out for yourself before your next visit...

The 4000TWENTYs are a bit different for all of us. There are 4 machines, with two tranny options, other than that all the parts are IDENTICAL. the tuning on the engine is the only change.

 

[jimg]

Thanx for the help and pointer to the owners manual. I didnt have any idea these were online. Thanx!!

It appears that the PS isnt programmable. Does a change of direction result in an abrupt change...thats is immediate/instant change of direction or it is gradual? If not gradual then I assume you need to use the clutch to control that.

As for tractor weight what was the strategy for making a line of tractors that are identical in everyway exc for hp? Conventional lines start out w/ low weight & hp and gradually increase from there. Just curious.

As for dealers I have only 2 choices -- the one I already visited or the other which has only a handful of tractors on his lot none of which is an 4120. To be complete I am planning to visit the 2nd dealer...however not holding out much hope.

re the MX6...I found the complete spec last night and see why its priced the way it is. I didnt relaize it was a double deck setup.

thanx again for your help...jimg

 

[rockyridgefarm]

<font color="blue"> As for tractor weight what was the strategy for making a line of tractors that are identical in everyway exc for hp? Conventional lines start out w/ low weight & hp and gradually increase from there. Just curious </font>

4 models all share the same componants = huge savings for Deere.

They could just send a sticker kit to the dealer, and you get whatever stickers and a program flash to a control module.

Hard to figure out why the customer should pay so much for the difference, though...

 

[timb]

jimg - something in the way you phrased your one comment got me to thinking that coming from a NH orientation, you may not have yet come across the whole JD Cut line up picture.

The four 4000-Twenties replace just the previous large frame 4000-Ten CUTs. 3 models became four. That's not the whole line though. There are several entirely different series of smaller units that are smaller, lighter, and have lower hp just as you expected to find. Right now it's a bit of a model number soup but it looks like once Deere is done releasing the revamped lineup you'll have:

2000-series (sub-CUTs and smallest CUTs, 3-5 models)
3000-series (mid-sized CUTs 4 models)
4000-series (large-framed CUTs 4 models)

and of course the numbers keep going..

5000-series (smaller utility tractors)
6000-series (medium utility tractors)

etc.,.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Good answer, Tim, it is easy to forget not everyone is up on the new series numbers....

And if I weere in the market I would get the 4120. After the warranty ran out, I'd order some 4720 stickers! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[tlbmech]

<font color="black"> </font> The change from fwd to rev is gradual...It is controlled by a modulation valve....

 

[jimg]

Tim
Thanx for that info I didnt understand that the high end of the 10 series became the 20 series. I think the dealer tryed to explain this but I must have missed it ...my fault though. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif