422 or 425 ?

[TBrown]

Hello all. I've been pouring over the posts to this forum for a few days, and finally decided the best way to pick your collective brain would be to chime in and ask. My home is on a 10 acre lot, with 2 acres of lawn and the rest heavily wooded. I currently maintain it with a hodgepodge of equipment, - a John Deere model B, a Bobcat 610, a Husqvarna YTH18 lawn tractor, a Yardman 10 horse snowblower, and a 7 horse Ariens snowblower as a backup (We get about 300 inches of snow a year in my town). I also have an old John Deere rototiller that I use once or twice a year. I have come to the realization that keeping up with the maintainance on all that stuff ( along with all the other motorized contraptions like cars, chainsaws, and stringtrimmers that a person has to have) is just too much of a crush. I'd like to get rid of it all (well, I'll keep one snowblower as insurance) and get one versatile, reliable machine to replace them. I'd been looking at compact tractors, but the unwavering allegiance of the posters at this forum has me thinking a power-trac may be the machine for me. You can't all be wrong. My question is, will the 422 serve my needs, or do I need to step up to the 425 ? The machine must be able to operate the 60" mower and the 48" snowblower, and maybe the brushog on occasion. My land is fairly level, so hills aren't an issue. The lack of ROPS isn't a big deal to me either, when you use the front end loader on a JD "B" with its narrow front end, you learn to be very, very careful. I'll only do occasional light excavating. I guess I'm looking for a reliable machine that I can put 100 hours or so a year on and that will last me 20 years, with power enough to keep my yard mowed even if I let it grow a bit too long and keep my driveway clear even after a nor'easter blows through. I know the tendency is to stand up for the machine you have, but honestly, for what I want to do, 422 or 425 ?

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN!

When I was shopping, the folks at Power Trac said I should get the larger unit if I wanted the 60" finish mower. It runs well and puts a nice cut on the yard, too. The 425 is supposed to have heavier wheel motors and higher lift than the 422 as well. Also, the ROPS was a must for me. The canopy is very nice. Keeps the sun off you in the heat of the day. Hope this helps.

 

[Bob999]

I would think the extra power of the 425 would be beneficial for the snow blower.

 

[BrianP]

Hi Tbrown, well Im looking to buy PT425 or 1430. I dont have one yet, but I run 25hp kohlers on my Z turns. I read hear the robins have given a few people problems. The Kolhers are really reliable. So for the extra money is worth it to me. another note as your hours into the 1000s increase on any machine you will loose Hp. My first kolher was a 22hp & after the 2500 hours it started to mower slower. The 25s do not loose enough to notice. just a thought , good luck

 

[smartguyz]

Good questions - I asked myself the same question - After last Tuesday, when I was really whaling on the PT425 by moving a pile of durt and loose brush with the large bucket, it was clear that I was taking the torque on the wheel motors to the limits. The limits on the new wheel motors is pretty high and I was impressed with the PT425's ability to really push stuff around. I'd be concerned that if you are putting that many hours on, you'll want the higher lift, higher torque motors, more reliable engine (with greater HP),and as MossRoad says - you'll enjoy the canopy. I certainly have no desire to go back - it's only $2000, and over 20 years, that's only $100/year. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Rob

 

[bmkar]

I have a 422...When I purchased, I only got 3hp for that additional 2 grand(or was it 1500,then)...not worth it THEN(IMO)...
But, now, (for all the reasons expressed) go for the 425. Mine continues to satisfy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I don't regret the canopy, either.

The maintenance aspect is quite a "relief", too. One machine is cared for constantly as I use it, while in the past, many machines were neglected for weeks (or months) at a time with the stale fuel issue ever present.

 

[MossRoad]

I remember a discussion about dollars per horse power back on New Years Eve 2001?(pretty good memory, huh?) At that time I wrote:

<font color="blue"> The 418 and 422 use Robbins engines and have 18 and 22 HP respectively. The 425 uses the Kohler Command 25HP engine.

The 418 does not have a hydraulic oil cooler and fan, the 422 and 425 do.

The 418 and 422 do not come standard with ROPS. The 425 does.

Price difference:
$6000.00 for PT418
$7000.00 for PT422, 4 more HP and hydraulic oil cooler.
$8000.00 for PT425, 7 more HP, Kohler Engine and hydraulic oil cooler ROPS and canopy.

Every one that I talked to are happy with the Robbins engine except one landscaper, who said that his 18HP died at 300 hours. Did not tell me why it died. I've always been partial to Kohler and there are several good places around here to get them serviced under warranty if needed. I looked at it this way. The gain in HP between the 18 and 25HP units is over 33%. The price difference is also a gain of 33%. So I am paying the exact same amount for each HP and I get the ROPS, canopy and hydraulic oil cooler free!( is this great math or what?) </font>

Back then:
The PT422 cost you $318.00 per HP.
The PT425 cost you $320.00 per HP.
Pretty close, so you got your money's worth and a FREE ROPS/CANOPY, in my book.

So, let's do the math again, here in August, 2003.

PT422 with 22 HP is $6500.00 ($500.00 less than 2 years ago)
PT425 with 25 HP is $8500.00 ($500.00 more than 2 years ago)

The PT422 costs you $295.00 per Horse Power.
The PT425 costs you $340.00 per Horse Power.

WOW! How often do you see that? The PT422 is a better value today than it was almost 2 years ago! Not bad. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The PT425 now costs more per HP. But with that you get the stronger wheel motors, 8" higher lift capacity and the ROPS/CANOPY. Also, apparently, it is warranted for commercial work. Is that worth $2000.00 to us, the comsumer? Probably /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'd still go for the PT425 if I had to do it all over again today, although $2000.00 could buy some nice implements. I'd definately get the ROPS no matter what.

 

[Brent_Griffith]

TBrown,

We've got the 422 model and we use it with the 60" mower and the brush hog. Our space on this ball of dirt is 16 acres, hilly and wooded. We mow probably 5 acres total, 3 finish and 2 brush hog only. The 422 does this with no problem.

We've had it for almost three years/three mowing seasons. The only problems have been the aforenoted Robin engine problems. Since that's been taken care of, we've experienced no problems, lack of power, etc.

I do not have a snow blower because it wouldn't really work very well in my location. My drive/parking area is lined with evergreens, so I'd be basically blowing it back onto myself if I tried. Maybe someone else could comment on the snow blower with the 422.

When I was buying/visiting I was told by PowerTrac that the 422 was a better machine than the 425 - less money, no appreciable performance difference. (I think they tell people things based on what they have on stock, or their own personal preference - just like everybody on this forum!) It would handle all the implements they list with no problems. I can verify the 60" mower and brush hog are no problem - maybe less of an issue in your situation since you've stated you have no hill issues.

That being said...if I had to do it over again, I'd probably stick with the 422. It was a real pain dealing with the non-starting in cold weather and getting it taken care of. As has been mentioned, that $2000 buys several implements! I do like the ROPS and would recommend it, so maybe we're only talking $1500. I like Kohler and would buy the 425 if the price difference was $500. At the current $1500 to $2000 price difference, the added features don't make it attractive in my situation. Others who need/want those features would state the opposite - the benefits of the added features outweighs the price difference when viewed over time.

If you're not doing any loading of trucks (extra lift height), heavy digging (extra wheel motor torque), or have any hills (extra torque, again) to contend with, the deciding factors would seem to be price and the performance with the snowblower. Hopefully someone who has the snowblower and a 422 will state their opinion.

The only other thing I'd be sure to check if you're considering the 422 is the distance to a Robin factory authorized service center. Just in case. The starting problem was supposedly limited to a "few" engines. Since the flurry of postings last year, I haven't seen anybody posting with the same problem so maybe that's a dead issue. Due to size, Kohler has service centers conveniently located just about everywhere. Robin, being a much smaller company in the U.S., isn't as convenient.

And one more caveat, I still haven't seen a satisfying explanation of the advantage of the "supposed" 3HP difference between the 22HP Robin and 25HP Kohler engines. (Note that I stated "supposed" because I've yet to see an apples-to-apples comparison of the HP or torque curves for these engines. The last time I looked, their respective literature are both based on different test methodology.) Since these machines are totally hydraulic driven, if the engine can spin the hydraulic pump, what's the extra HP doing? Consuming more fuel? What else?

Hope that hasn't blurred the picture too much. Good luck.

Brent

 

[bmkar]

MR,
I do remember that discussion...and for me, the analysis was even easier in Jan./2002...
422 w/ canopy and oil cooler= $6500 (closeout,sale?!?)
425 w/canopy and oil cooler=$8000
wheel motors and lift=same
hp difference=3 (13.6% inc)
price difference=$1500(23% inc)

For the price diff., I rationalized that I could buy the "whole"
engine if the Robin was a "bust". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So, now, with improved "product differentiation" I would look for the incrementally improved wheel motors, lift and hp together and probably decide differently...
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Edward_DiMaria]

Hey guys don't get fooled by only looking at HP numbers - the kohler is more powerful - check some other posts- we have seen many problems with the Robin - I think the torque for the Kohler is over 20% more - so it makes a difference in difficult conditions especially hills - but I agree, you have to go by your individual needs - and noboby has ever figured out PT pricing - Kohlers are not that much more expensive
so go figure - It just another PT mystery - Most manufacturers just offer engine options with an upgrade price