Mowing 455 gear box/ PTO issues

toplink · May 15, 2012

Hi all,
new to the site, and I'm hoping for a little guidance from the experienced. I have a 2001 JD 455 LG, just doing my personal yard with it. Bought it used about 3 years ago with about 200 hours on it, and it now has just under 400 hours. Last fall what I assumed was the original gearbox failed during start up. Non repairable as most of you probably know. I bit the bullet this spring and bought a new gear box (19086), filled it, and went to mowing. After about 5 hours of use, it too failed in exactly the same manor, during initial start up. The gear box is warranted, but obviously something is wrong here. The local JD dealer could not provide an answer, and I'm wondering if there is an issue with the PTO that is causing it to over torque the gearbox during start? HELP please!

beenthere · May 15, 2012

:welcome: to the forum.

I assume you are talking about the mower deck? Is it 60" or 54" ?

Have not heard of a mower deck gear box failing. But then I have not made a search of TBN to see if there have been previous threads on a problem.

If on the tractor, then not sure what gear box you mean.

toplink · May 15, 2012

Thanks beenthere,
Yep, the gear box that failed is on the 60" deck (part number 19086), but since I have had 2 failures inside of 5 hours, I feel the PTO may be the problem, as I can't find anyone who has experienced gearbox failures, even after thousands of hours of use. Just doesn't add up. My local JD dealer says that since the PTO is hydraulic, that it should not over torque. I called JD today, and could not get past the "tech desk". I wanted to speak with someone in engineering PTOs on the 455's but as expected, they referred me to my dealer.......who doesn't know!
I re-read the manual to assure myself that I wasn't the problem. It says to accelerate the engine to operating speed prior to engaging the PTO, but I had been doing it at mid to low idle. Both failures occurred with the engine above 3/4 rpm, as recommended by the manual. Go figure!
Like I said, the gearcase is warranted, but if it fails again, I would hate to ask the dealer to supply another if my tractor is the issue, and I certainly don't want to purchase another one. So I'm trying to eliminate anything that could be the cause prior to installing and using the new gearbox.

Thanks,

Toplink

beenthere · May 15, 2012

I hear ya!

I would hate to ask the dealer to supply another...

But don't feel sorry for the dealer. Deere Corp. leaves it up to the dealer to "deal" with you, and your dealer can contact Deere through his/her area rep to solve the problem.
I'd suggest you writing this up in as much detail as possible - what you did, when you did, where you did, and how you involved the dealer. Turn that over to the dealer and send a copy to Deere customer service. Leave the problem in the dealer's lap. The warranted parts do not come out of his hide, and Deere will be on his case if he doesn't figure out what is wrong and causing the problem. The easiest solution for the dealer is to replace the bad gearbox. That isn't a good solution for you however, as it costs time and loss of your tractor for lawn mowing and other chores.

Any other indications that the clutch in the 455 is the problem?
Do you have the tech manual for the 455?

From what I've been able to cipher from being around TBN for awhile, the gearbox's on the Deere decks are about as bullet proof as any part they make (or buy as I think they were Italian made on the decks of your 60" vintage).

Have been around the engineers at the Deere Horicon plant too, and even ones' I know will not work directly...they say go through your dealer.

toplink · May 15, 2012

No other issues with anything on the tractor. I really love the machine, and treat it much more gentle than they are designed to take, that's what puzzles me so. I couldn't believe the first one failed, much less the second! Is there a clutch that could be fused together not allowing the "soft start" that normally occurs with hydraulic action?
I purchased the gearbox online, but from a large JD dealer. My local dealer was $200 higher for the same part! Now I'm having this issue and don't know whether the local dealer will take over the task. Will Deere let the local dealer handle the warranty on the gearbox, or will it have to come from the original dealer? Talk about a $700 hard place and a $1000 rock!

Thanks,

toplink

beenthere · May 15, 2012

Ouch!
That does make the cheese more binding.
If me, I'd sit down with my local dealer, and figure he would be sympathetic and hopefully understand your move to save some bucks.

On the other hand, have you checked that you don't have a spindle or two that are seized up, or nearly so? I'd suspect that before upline at the PTO clutch.

I love my 455 too, and thankfully don't have the problem that you have.
In the meantime, take the warranted gearbox replacement.

toplink · May 15, 2012

Thought about the spindle, but they seem to be moving freely. Seems crazy to need to rebuild a spindle....almost as crazy as 2 gear boxes huh? Guess I'll have a talk with my local guys and see where it goes. My buddy suggested same thing, worse they can say is no.

Appreciate it!

toplink

BigD9 · May 16, 2012

We had a gearbox go out on our 62D John Deere MMM deck back in 2007. The deck had 25 hours on it and was covered by warranty. Like yours, it was a sudden failure. Only ours happened while mowing. Just "bang" and the engine stalled. However, unlike yours, the new gearbox installed in 2007 has lasted now for 500 hours. "knock on wood".

toplink · Jun 16, 2012

Okay guys,

I thoroughly checked out the deck and nothing seems to be binding on it. They spin with smoothness, and a very precise feel to them, so I don't think the spindles are an issue here. I put the newly warranted and replaced gearbox on it and reinstalled the deck today. When I tried the PTO engage prior to installing the deck, each time it engaged, I could feel it, and hear a small load on the engine, although, almost imperceptible. I engaged the PTO with the deck attached, and with the tractor at idle. Seems to run smoothly enough, however, even at idle the PTO seems to put an awful lot of sudden torque to the deck. Enough to make the deck really jolt. Just can't help but think that engaging the PTO every time at near idle has possibly damaged the clutches, resulting in an "over torquing" of the gear box. 3 big blades to start turning is a lot of resistance, and if all that torque hits it sudden enough, seems like that couldn't be good. Problem is, I don't know if the PTO clutch has a smoother start normally, and my dealer still insists that the manual is correct in instructing me to have the engine a full throttle when I engage the PTO. I am at a loss here. I guess it's dealer service time, I just hope they don't bust another gearbox trouble shooting the matter.

toplink

struth · Mar 3, 2013

I am currently having issues with the pto side of things.

Was wondering when people have wrecked/destroyed their gearbox. Once it was removed from the mower was it seized or still able to be spun freely by hand. and following on from that how can you check if a secondhand gearbox is ok before installing?

thanks for any help