52 ford 8n hydraulics

[ford8n52]

Hi all I just got a 52 ford 8n that had been in a field for quiet a while the told me somethang was wrong with the hydraulics on it so got it home had to buy a carb for it got it running adjusted tappets and engine runs great transmission seem to work great I engaged the pto and try the lift and the lift did not work would not do any thang at all so I flushed it out with kerasene and refilled it still nothing so I went ahead and pulled the top cover and looked it over seems to be a good shape well than I started the tractor up and just a little fluid movement out of the tube that runs up to the top can put my finger over it no pressure so I pull the pump out of the bottom clean it up with kerasene and cleaned the all valves up found out the intake control valve spring was broke and replaced the spring cleaned it all up then I submerged it under some oil and used the pto shaft to turn it pushed the intake control valve in and still nothing no pressure so pulled it out then I took the valve chamber off on the end and it seems the pistons are real loose in the bore and the pto shaft bushing is wore out. do I need to replace the valve chamber or just the pistons and what is the piston bore size also can those valve chamber be sleeved where the piston go in. this 8n is new to me and I don't know what the next step is. has anyone ever had this happen and what does it take to fix it and where is the best place for part I located in St.Cloud Florida Thanks for any help Jason /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Soundguy]

Howdy. I just redid the hyds in my 52 8n a few months ago.. top cover, pump, seals, piston.. etc.

You can get some rebuild parts for the pump new.. but most of it, like the valve chambers are going to be salvage.

I get my parts mainly from Don & Dereck at Just8n's
Just 8n's
or
For the smith's site.
The Smith

The smith mainly has salvaged parts taken from running machines, and DonB has some salvage and just about anything New you would need.

Hit those two sites and find the email or tele numbers and email / call them. Jon Smaith, and Don and Dereck B. are great people. Like I said. 99% of the parts for my 46 2n, 52 8n, and 54 NAA came from them.

If you can't find pump parts.. you will need a new pump altogether. Keep in mind that 8n and 9n/2n pumps are different. and a 9n/2n pump woun't work with an 8n top cover.. so if you switch to an older 9n/2n pump.. you have to swap the top cover as well.. otherwise they 9n/2n top cover and pump bolt up in the 8n casting fine.. you just loose position control.. etc.

If you need any more info, just let me know. That pump should produce about 1700 psi at 2.85 gpm.. when the engine rpm is at 2000.

Is the relief valve stuck open by any chance?

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

No the relift valve is not stuck open it just the pistons seem real loose in the bores called Don at just 8n's and he said he would not change the control bodys just pistons and cam and bushing but he said to mic the control body cylinder bores to see if there wore out but I don't have but half of the IT manuals lift off with the first page of the hydraulics the RR page so I don't know what the bore spec's are I was wondering if those cylinders can be sleeved and also a do deal what John very good guy and fast service Thanks for all help Jason

 

[Soundguy]

I'll check my it manual when I get home.. but am not sure if the f0-4 lists the bore specs or not. I'll check the other sub I read.. someone might have their MPC catalog handy.. it may have the specs.

As with anything.. I would guess that you could have a specialty machine shop sleave it.. but at the price of the machining, and the custom sleave insert.. it may be just as well to get a new pump housing if yours is shot.. I believe you can find a good used one in the 400$ range.. Heck.. I've seen complete pumps that came out of running units go inthe 325-425 range on the smiths site.

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

Just for the heck of it I put the pump back in the tractor using the old gasket and the top off put my hand down in there pushed the control valve and shot oil out of the tube put my finger over the end and shot my finger off and covered me in oil so I would say the pistons arent as bad as I thougt so going to clean the transmission and pump agian get some new gaskits and give it a try what is the best way to clean it out? I heard diesal fuel in it and run for 30 mins is this true or would it damage somethang Thanks for your help again Jason

 

[Soundguy]

I wouldn't do the diesel fuel and run it thing. That oil in there is also the tranny lube, and the rear diffy lube.

With the pump out, you should be able to clean the sump and the pump itself with your choice of solvent. I like odorless mineral spirits.. however, mineral spirits, kerosens, and diesel fuel will all work perfectly. The pump is pretty simple, and once you have the chambers off to check bores, etc.. it should be easy to simply spray clean with a water hose, and then douse down with diesel, and reassemble with new gaskets. I did mine that way.. and it works superb now.

Also.. the bore spec is .800 I believe, and I have scanned both pages from the fo-4 concerning the hydro pump, if you would like me to email them to you.

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

Thanks for the help I will take your advice on that yes that would be great if you could send me the copy my email is Viking62@kua.net Don at just 8n's say the bore barely ever wares out just the pistons I think what happen is that the intake valve was stuck out from corrosion and the rod that moves it poped off also the valve in the body were stuck a little do to having water in it about fruit jar and no oil also what gas to clean should that be ok to use as long as I am careful the reson I ask is be cause it drys fast also about the gear oil theres been a lot of confuseion on this like 134 hydro oil or 90w mineral oil and also 80w 90w would 80w 90w be the best in florida? Thanks agian for your help and nice restored tractor Jason

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. the bronze scotch yokes usually wear out faster than the cast iron pump body.

As for oil.. If you are completely resealing the pump, and doing a new piston.. or new rings.. then you could get by with the 134d oil, or equivalent universal transdraulic oil. However.. it is some pretty thin stuf.. like a 20w oil, with addatives, etc. While the hyds will be faster in cold weather, if there are any leaks in the system, including tranny input shaft seal, and rear wheel seals.. they will be more obvious with the thinner oil.

I personally like the 90wt gl-1 mineral oil. I put it back in mine after the hyd rebuild. It works like it did when it rolled off the factory floor. You can get the 90w gl-1 mineral oil from napa, as a 5 gal pail, part number 65-205 or from TSC, in a 5 gallon pail, marked as "ford tractor transmission fluid 1939-1952", and sometimes from wallmart , marked as 90wt mineral oil, gl-1.

Down here in florida, the wallmart oil is 18$ for 5 gal, TSC 90wt ford oil is about 27$, and Napa 90wt 5 gal oil is about 21$. TSC universal ( 134 equivalent ) is about 25$, and the real deal 134d oil is about 45$.

Avoid an 80w90 gl-4 or 5 oil. the sulfur content -may- damage yellow metal parts... and the inards of your pump are yellow metal.

For winter, a 80w oil would be nice.. though I havn't seen an 80wt gl-1 oil in some time.. though if you call around to some oil companies.. you may just find some.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

One more thing I would like to add.

The original sump volume was 5 gallons.. however most of us only add about 4.5 to 4.75 gallons. We do this to keep oil from pooling while setting around the tranny input shaft seal ( and wetting the clutch down ) or from setting at the mouth of the axle trumpets.

Your 52 may have 2 seals in the axles.. depending on the SN.. however it is good practice.

The easiest way to do this is to leave the bottom bolt out of the 6" round side cover when filling with oil, when you get oil at that hole, stop, and replace the bolt. Now check your dipstick, and add a new hash mark to where that oil evel is, and consider that 'full'. That still leaves plenty of oil for the splash lube gears, and the hydro pickup is completely submerged, as it is only an inch above the pump bottom plate anyway.

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

thanks for that good peice of advice I will consider that on the refill I also notice that the rear wheel's wobble back and fourth same as my 53 Jub. wheels is there anythang to do about this? The 2 pages came thorgh great Thanks agian for your help. Jason

 

[Soundguy]

On the 8n and the NAA, the big honkin axle nut is what holds the hub onto the axle. If this nut gets loose, it lets the hub play against the axle. Hub is cast, axle is hardened splines.. what happens 95% of the time is the hub wallows out, and the axle is fine.. Hub is about 50 bucks... or if the hub hasn't worn down and you can actually get it to tighten up on the axle splines before the big nut bottoms out on the axle shoulders.. you may be in luck. Also.. as a money saving venture.. some farmers will take strapping steel.. like is used to strap things down to pallets.. and cut thin strips out of it, and lay it in the grooves around the splines in the hub, to act as shims to get a slightly worn hub to tighten down for a few more years. Another method is to machine some washers so that the nut tightens against the washers.. but the washers have some clearance cut out so they dont bottom out ont he axle, but instead, snug up the hub to the axle. This will all make sens once you take a look at the pieces.

Also.. if the threads on your axle are damaged from the play.. don't worry.. there is a -good- workaround for that as well. The original axle nut had a locking pin, and was one piece.. however.. as I said.. if the threads are a tad messed up, you can get a 'repair nut'.. or it is also refered to by farmers as a '2-piece squeezem' nut' it is actually a tapered threaded sleave that fits over the damaged axle threads, and then has a collar that threads on the outside of the sleave, tightening it up as it threads on, and 'squuezing' the inner piece onto the axle and bad threads. A properly installed squeezem nut will torque down to the same spec as the original 1 piece nut.. 450 ft pounds, and will hold the hub fairly decently.. though the nut is like 12 bucks.. it beats buying a new axle for a hundred bucks.. when just the threads are damaged.

If you can stand by the rear tire and grab the top of it and move it back and forth.. the hub is loose on the axle..

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

I will also give this a try I guess I better start take pics of this project Thanks agian Jason

 

[ford8n52]

hey agian soundguy I was just wondering what the touqe specs are on the hydro pump cover and the lift cover Thanks for the help jason

 

[Soundguy]

If I can find my fo-4 I'll take a looksee.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

The lift cover and pump bottom plate should be 53-60 ftpounds, or 72-81 NM if I see the chart correctly.

Keep in mind that pretty much all the fasteners on the pump bottomplate, hyd top cover, side inspection plates, and pto bolts are the same size. However, I would not torque the round side cover bolts down very much. Just enough to seal the gasket, as the casting web is pretty thin right there. You can safely use gasket goop on the round side cover gaskets, and also a thin smear on the pto gasket.. but not too much.. the pto gasket will actually effect some preload and movement issues ont he pto shaft.. so the thin paper gasket there doesn't need to be loaded up by huge amounts of gasket goop.. a thin smear will do. The top cover and bottom cover gaskets on the other hand really need to be dry.. especialy at the right front corners where the standpipe is carrying the 1500-1700 psi oil. If you do need to 'tack' the gasket down to the flange to make instalation easier.. just use a microscopic smear in a couple places .. just enough to hold the gasket down.. but none near the standpipe.. and just enough to stick it...

I also probably would torque the pto bolts down to quite the 53-60 number either. I'd back off that a bit. perhaps 45 ft pounds.

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

Thanks for the info got it together without a drop of gasket goop now I found that some ether lost the washer thang that holds the shiffer under the spring and they tryed to make one out of a washer but it did not work luckly I find the washer they made before the gear got it. so now I have to hunt one of them down, did not get to try the hydro out one question I have is the 12 volt connversion on the 52 8n I dont know where the top braket bolts to on the engine the one that some one put on there is bolted under a head bolt and I don't like that idea because of blowing a head gasket Thanks for you help agian Jason

 

[Soundguy]

Actually, quite a few people use a head bolt ( or 2 or 3 ) as a tie down point for a top bracket for an alternaotr, or an aux hydraulic pump kit that a few people sell. The oem spark plug wire tube was also held down by head bolts / studs. If your bracket only uses 1 bolt.. I'd consider making it use 2, or relocate it altogether.. your choice.

If you do go the stud/bolt route, you might get a stud with a longer top thread portion, and to retorque after a warm up cycle.

Another option is to locate a bolt near the water pump area. My 2n has a delco alternator, and the top bracket runs to a bolt on the front of the engine.

Soundguy

 

[ford8n52]

hydro seems to be working as I can stand on the lift arms and it will lift me with no problem I wieght about 270 thanks agian for the help also found out this had a naa piston and the lift seems to hold when the tractor is shut off also got my oil pressure gauge working seems like I got 40 cold and 27 hot at hi rpm and low rpm 20 cold and 16 hot is this good on engine oil pressure? Thanks agian for you great help Jason

 

[Soundguy]

Just about any oil pressure above 6psi hot idle is good. Double digits is great.

I don't know what type oil you are using.. but if you had low single digit oil pressures on a sae 30.. the usuale step is to go to sae 40, or 20w50, or even sae 50 before an engine teardown.

Soundguy