6 power plants closed

[joemd11]

I heard about these plant closings from my nephew who is a lineman for a power company. Seems they are older, coal fired plants that can't pass new EPA pollution regs. The plants are in Pa, Oh, and Md. This can't be good for electric power rates. Might need to stock up on candles



FirstEnergy closing 6 coal-fired power plants

 

[JMR2900]

...And EPA regs don't kill jobs

 

[joemd11]

Ok, some technical trouble. That link didn't work but you can google it.

 

[Egon]

Coal fired plants can have other age symtons other than emissions.

 

[Pirate]

...And EPA regs don't kill jobs

EPA regs are to protect us, otherwise our country will end up as polluted and toxic as China. Company owners want you to believe it's only about jobs but it could be just as easy as some cheap bastards don't want to cut in to their huge profit margins to upgrade their equipment.

 

[RoyJackson]

EPA regs are to protect us, otherwise our country will end up as polluted and toxic as China. Company owners want you to believe it's only about jobs but it could be just as easy as some cheap bastards don't want to cut in to their huge profit margins to upgrade their equipment.

Yeah, but the EPA also has a habit of picking nits without considering the consequences. Our air is vastly cleaner then it was a few decades ago...but getting that last few .0001% can be the most costly, with little value.
In this case, I think it's more the EPA justifying their budget then cleaning the environment.

Here's a link that works:
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/mandates-pollution-FirstEnergy-closing/2012/01/27/id/425707

 

[joemd11]

Thanks for link Roy. I've come to terms with the fact that I'm an analog man trapped in a digital world!

 

[dmccarty]

There are two power plants near us. One is coal fired and the other is a nuke. The coal plant will shut down soon because of the EPA regulations. The greenies used to protest in town about the nuke plant but I have not seen them in a year or two. If they close down the nuke plant we won't have any locally generated power.

Raleigh is spending money for a study to see if they can produce "green" power from a lake. The little bit of information that was already provided makes the idea sound like a waste of money. Gas fired plants are all the rage since they are cleaner and gas prices are low. We went through this a decade or two back and then the gas prices went back up.

Sad thing is that it did not sound like the workers at coal plant were going to have jobs else where in the company.

Later,
Dan

 

[SPIKER]

many reasons behind the closures I'm sure. The EPA is a major one though. Costs to upgrade old plants makes it not worth wile as rates are down cost to upgrade a 40+ year old plant are also a major factor. While they probably would continue to run it if it was not for EPA mandated upgrades that makes the plant a cost loss or not worth wile to keep them running millions will need put into the plant that is basically at or past its life span.

The EPA will not let any new coal power plants or Nuclear power plants be built, even building or upgrading existing plants is so costly and so many regulations mandated by the EPA that they are almost better off going out of business as to attempt to keep em going. This will cause the cost of power to end users to go up as supply is reduced and when peak power requirements let them bump up end user costs and profit increases. this is the point of pretty much all companies to make $ they most part they are for profit not non-profit ones.

EPA also wont let any more Oil Refiners be built even when they are operating at close to 90% rate or above for many years. this is a reason gas costs a lot worldwide there are less plants doing more work and they have to keep the up time operating at near 100% all the time. When one is closed for updating cleaning or whatnot there is a spike in gas prices as demand stays the same but millions of gallons of gas are lost out of the system and prices jump due to supply & demand.


Mark

 

[ultrarunner]

Some have argued the EPA doesn't kill jobs... it simply moves them around by picking winners and losers.

 

[dmccarty]

One big issue with these plants being shut down is the reliability of the power grid. There is not much over capacity and with these plants closing there is even less capacity. This has been raised as an issue but the Federal agency that is supposed to watch over power reliability seems to be ignoring the reality. I think it is FERC. The WSJ has had a couple reports on this in the past few months.

Later,
Dan

 

[joemd11]

Read an article that said the closings won't have much of an impact now due to the poor economy and resulting low demand for electricity. If/when the economy does pick up, then what will happen? I haven't heard of any new power plants (of any kind) being built.

 

[ultrarunner]

There is a new peaker plant going in not too far from here...

Several of the old units were recently retired for non-compliance...

Brother's father in law was the superintendent on one of the decommissionings.

Very reliable and never a failure... was essential right after the loma prieta quake...

Had two things going against is... it ran on fuel oil and it the area where it was located was originally industrial and transformed to trendy...

The big utility use to have many smaller hydro plants... they too, were quite reliable... guess cost won out over reliability and redundant back-up systems.

Many times I find myself the lone voice when it comes to back-up options at work...

We will bring in a new suction pump or steam boiler... and I ofter advocate keeping the old one for stand-by.

In the 20+ years I've been the Hospital Engineer... we have never had to cancel a case due to a problem with the facility...

Redundancy has it's place...

 

[zzvyb6]

You see, since we exported all the manufacturing jobs overseas, those plants can be permanently closed. Their power consumption has been canceled from the current (ha ha) demand spreadsheet. (We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning).

The closing of the power plants guarantees that manufacturing in that area is gone for good. But look at the bright side, if we anger the Chinese or Iranians, they will probably still be inclined to sell us electric power, maybe via eBay or Craigslist, or the USPS (if it fits, it ships). BTW: All the new cars are actually cleaning up the air faster than they ever imagined.

Besides, now that we qualify as a Chinese colony by supplying most of their raw materials and scrap metal, our vast coal resources will probably be able to supply them with plenty of carbon to keep their home fires burning for a long time. Note that their 'environmentalists' seem to have a lot of fatal accidents....

 

[300UGUY]

There is a new peaker plant going in not too far from here...

Several of the old units were recently retired for non-compliance...

Brother's father in law was the superintendent on one of the decommissionings.

Very reliable and never a failure... was essential right after the loma prieta quake...

Had two things going against is... it ran on fuel oil and it the area where it was located was originally industrial and transformed to trendy...

The big utility use to have many smaller hydro plants... they too, were quite reliable... guess cost won out over reliability and redundant back-up systems.

Many times I find myself the lone voice when it comes to back-up options at work...

We will bring in a new suction pump or steam boiler... and I ofter advocate keeping the old one for stand-by.

In the 20+ years I've been the Hospital Engineer... we have never had to cancel a case due to a problem with the facility...

Redundancy has it's place...

We had a bunch of hydro plants in Michigan closed. Mostly because they were too small to begin with, when they needed maintenance, they dumped them. They also gave the dams to the state, because dams need work also. One thing that I found out recently was that hydro dams usually silt up over a period of years, limiting the amount of water contained, and the power generating capacity. Shutting them down and cleaning them out is very expensive.

 

[Pilot]

We need to be looking at thorium nuclear reactors. Safer than uranium, plenty of raw material to supply the US with power for 1000 years. Much less radioactive waste, doesn't support a nuclear chain reaction without priming, so a reactor shuts down by itself if support equipment fails.

 

[JacobsenT422D]

EPA stops evrything in USA. So CANADA, MEXICO, etc turn to CHINA, INDIA, and JAPAN to buy the resources that the USA will not buy. CHINA , INDIA, and JAPAN buys the natural resources EPA will not let anyone use in USA to manufacture. Everyone in the USA can no longer buy AMERICAN becuse the EPA will not let the resources be used in the USA. ALL American money goes to CHINA, INDIA, and JAPAN. AMERICA goes bankrupt. CHINA, INDIA, and JAPAN take over AMERICA. First acts of the new owners of AMERICA, i.e., the conquering CHINA, INDIA, and JAPAN is to execute all of the USA EPA and all of the USA Environmentalists.

 

[plowking]

There is a big project in NH called Northern Pass. It has met with alot of oppostion. The Hydro Quebec Utility in cooperation with Local Utlity are trying to run new utility lines fron Quebec thru NH to other states to supply them power. NH may/may not benefit or get any power from this. Land owners up north,especially in scenic or tourist areas are fighting it. NH Society of Protection of Forest just bought a conservation easement on land that had a possible right of way for Hydro Quebec. The association of producers of electricity[ these producers can sell their power to utilities ] in NH are fighting the project. State legislators are carefull who they back on this project. plowking

 

[caver]

Late to the discussion: I work at a 1200 megawatt coop owned coal fired power plant. We are a non-profit. When we switched to low sulfur coal you could not tell by looking at our stack if either unit was online.

We can stop burning coal in this country but it will then be sold and shipped overseas where it will be burned. I understand the environmentalists are trying to block that too.

 

[Tollster]

Perhaps the millions that goes to the CEO's salary should have been spent on plant maintence instead. It nots like they changed the rules over night without anyone knowing what needs to be done.
PPL just upgrated their scrubbers, which created almost 2 years worth of work, for welders, insulators, scaffold erectors, and other craft in my area... Strange how the EPA kills so much work, ain't it?