8N starter or voltage reg. stuck on?

simonmeridew · Feb 14, 2010

One day this winter, the battery was dead on my 1950 8N. I bought a new 6 volt battery, when I tried to hook it up, solenoid clicked and it tried to start the tractor, without me pushing the switch, etc. Disconnected the wiring from the starter switch. Same deal. I put a new VR on about 30 years ago and it's been fine since, always starts, charges etc, starts even below zero. Nothing flaky about the wiring, conventional circuit. Is a contact stuck on my voltage regulator?
simonmeridew

Just Bill · Feb 14, 2010

Hello
It sounds like the starter solenoid is stuck.
A stuck VR might run the battery down but won't cause it to try to start.

Soundguy · Feb 16, 2010

an 8n uses a thumb sized switch on the trans stop that merely grounds the small terminal on the solenoid. if the switch is internally shorted, or the wire from the switch to the relay is shorted to ground, then it will try to energize the solenoid when hooked up. pullthe small wire off the solenoid.. if it still wants to spin, then the solenoid is stuck.. might free up by tapping on it.. but I think I'd replace it with another 3 terminal oem ford 8n solenoid.. and make sure you install it the same way.. small terminal towards block.. otherwise it won't work.

ps, as other poster said.. vreg has -0- to do with starting circuit..

soundguy

mrpoppy58 · Feb 16, 2010

I had the same problem with My 8n. I called n-complete. The Man said the Starter switch was dirty and needed cleaned. I cleaned it and no more problem.
Mr poppy

simonmeridew · Feb 16, 2010

I did try disconnecting the wire to the starter button completely and the starter still wanted to go when I connected the battery cable. I'll try the investigating the solenoid as soon as I can get to it. Thanks for the replies.
simonmeridew

Soundguy · Feb 17, 2010

simonmeridew said:
I did try disconnecting the wire to the starter button completely and the starter still wanted to go when I connected the battery cable. I'll try the investigating the solenoid as soon as I can get to it. Thanks for the replies.
simonmeridew

I didn't say pull the small wire off the start switch.. I said to pull the small wire off the SOLENOID itself. that small wire can be shorted to ground and still energize the starter if the bat cables are hooked up.. that's what I -specifically- gave you those instructions.. to rule the wireing out, vs the solenoid contacts themselves.

soundguy

simonmeridew · Feb 17, 2010

Sorry Soundguy, please don't take offense. I took the wire off the starter button probably 6 weeks ago and was only relating what I have done so far. Can't really work on the tractor in the winter here; wrenches freeze to your hands and I can't work with heavy gloves on. So I won't be able to report any progress till it warms up, hopefully mid March/early April. I'm listening to advice and gathering information, and will follow it. Thanks
simonmeridew

simonmeridew · Feb 20, 2010

Update:
Two miracles: 42 degrees out today, and..... I took the wire off the solenoid as directed, hitched the battery up, touched the wire back on the solenoid contact and saw two sparks: one on the solenoid contact, and one on one of the generator posts. It seems the wire connector on the generator was bent downward and partially shorting out on the generator casing itself; I haven't looked at the wiring diagram yet but evidently the solenoid was grounding out on the generator. I'm glad I saw that spark out of the corner of my eye.
I hooked everything back up, put some liquid electrical tape on the generator connector and pressed the starter: bingo, half a crank and it started.
simonmeridew

Soundguy · Feb 21, 2010

I'd say the genny was shorting out the solenoid, not the other way around, since the tab on the genny was the one bent, and presumably, touching case ( chassie ground ), with the bat side of the solenoid being 'hot'.

However.. this also kinda tells me that the cutout between the battery and armature are stuck or welded closed, as there should be no contact between the hot side of the solenoid and the armature side of the generator unless the engine is running and generator is 'generatin'...

soundguy

simonmeridew · Feb 21, 2010

thanks for the heads up... is the "cutout" located in the voltage regulator?

Without buying a new ammeter I won't be able to tell if the genny is charging. My ammeter is original and the little rubber ring inside the ammeter dial under the glass has come apart and fell down on the indicator needle, holding it in one position.
I guess I could measure voltage with a voltmeter with the engine off and engine on; what does the genny charge at normally, about 7 volts?
simonmeridew