9n popping out of 1st & 3rd - Sherman Step up question too.

[gears351]

Anyone out there know if the detent springs on the shift shafts are prone to going bad? I know this is a 70 year old machine so I'm sure it could have broken or lost temper.... I've got to hold 1 & 3 in gear with the shifter to keep it from popping out.

My other thought was if the retention plate on the back end of the trans broke like I've seen online - maybe the shift shaft rotated enough that the ball is not hitting the detent.

Also if I'm tearing into this thing should I pull the whole trans out (rather than just the rear end) and service the Sherman while I'm at it? (yeah I know, stupid question... do it while I'm at it). And speaking of the Sherman, can you change a step up into a step down by switching internals around or is it a whole different gear set and case?

Thanks!

 

[beenthere]

Take the tranny cover off and look inside. You may see if the gears are worn, or if the shifter is worn. If I recall, it is not a hard thing to do.

 

[gears351]

Yeah, that's on the list of things to do when I put it away for the winter. Worn gears wouldn't cause both 1 &3 to pop out though..... would it? It doesn't feel like it's clicking into the detent for the gear like it does for 2nd and R

There's no grinding or noises, it just slips out - doesn't matter if it's under load or not and then the motor revs up.

It's not at all like my last one that would crackle and pop and crunch (innit that the old rice crispies ad?) when I tore that trans down the 1st spur was missing 2&1/2 teeth but the pinion shaft was missing 10+!

 

[Soundguy]

Take the tranny cover off and look inside. You may see if the gears are worn, or if the shifter is worn. If I recall, it is not a hard thing to do.

I take it you don't have a 9n/2n, and thus don't know that the trans cover is also the bas for the steering box.. thus to pull the trans cover you will be stripping the hood, grill, doglegs, battery, steer wheel, dash, bad box and upper steering column.. and the sector gears and steering shaft!!

Sound slike bad detents.. though I would check fork and gears since I had it open.


No.. cannot convert one sherman to another just by playing with innards...

if you go in there.. do it all.. check clutch, tranny input shaft seal.. etc..

soundguy

 

[gears351]

Yeah, I was thinking that about opening the trans cover - but as I am putting an all aluminum cover & dash on in place of the iron & steel one I'll have that all apart anyhow.

Thanks Soundguy - "sound" advice that I needed to hear.

Why do we all want to take shortcuts even though at heart we really know the right way to do it?

I take it you don't have a 9n/2n, and thus don't know that the trans cover is also the bas for the steering box.. thus to pull the trans cover you will be stripping the hood, grill, doglegs, battery, steer wheel, dash, bad box and upper steering column.. and the sector gears and steering shaft!!

Sound slike bad detents.. though I would check fork and gears since I had it open.


No.. cannot convert one sherman to another just by playing with innards...

if you go in there.. do it all.. check clutch, tranny input shaft seal.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

It's like when I am buying brakes for my truck that I use to haul my gooseneck trailer and expensive tractor.. and the guy asks if I want the economy shoes or the HD ones for 15$ more.

sure I want the good ones. I don't want to be a tailgate ornamant for the guy in front of me..

soundguy

 

[Eagleview]

I think your asking a lot from a spring loaded ball to hold it in gear if it wants to come out that bad . They do help a little but are more to counteract the weight of the gear stick . I would think it more likely to be worn selectors .

I put more thought into the problem , I am not familiar with your tractor but I doubt that 1&3 would share the same detent ball . I now think it more likely you have wear in the bottom of the stick were it goes into the selectors . This would have the effect of not pushing the 1&3 selector shafts all the way back . This would stop the detent ball cutouts reaching the balls so they can drop in (hence you saying you cannot feel them click in) . It would also mean the gears are not fully engaging where they can keep themselves in mesh .

 

[gears351]

This tractor's trans is really basic, the shift "fork" for 1-3 is more of a shift housing totally enclosing the 1st gear spur. The shaft it rides on runs the length of the trans ans and has 3 notches in it that the single ball & spring clicks into - the front one for 3rd, the center for N,2,&R and the rear for 1st. That is what's causing me to think that either the shaft has rotated (hiding those detent notches from the ball) or the spring has lost tension or broke.

The shifter (at least by my experience/understanding) only pushes either the 1-3 fork forwards or backwards or the 2-R fork (which looks more like a traditional shift fork) F or Back. There isn't really a shift gate on the shifter that would hold the trans in gear.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong here (although I've got 2 of them torn apart in the garage that seem to indicate this).

As always, thanks for the different ideas though - I'm never afraid to learn!