A great tractor

[RichZ]

Here's my 1951 Ferguson TO-20, with my Landpride finishing mower. Our henhouse is in the background.

Rich

 

[RobS]

Rich, great looking tractor. Help me though. I would have said that was a Ford 8N. What's the difference and how can I tell from now on? Thanks /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RichZ]

Rob, you're right, they look very similar, and that was intentional. Harry Ferguson invented the 3 point hitch, and had a famous handshake agreement with Henry Ford that he would get a fee for each Ford tractor sold with one. When Henry died, his son took over, and said that since the agreement was never in writing, he would no longer honor it. Understandably, Harry was very angry, so he designed a tractor to compete with the Ford "N" series, which was their best seller. The TO-20 had some improvements over the "N"s. The gears of the "N" series make it difficult to use for mowing, because of a high ground speed. The TO-20 has a greater speed difference between the gears, making mowing and other functions easier.
As far as appearance, one of the easiest ways to tell them apart is by the hood. The "N"s have a lid over the battery with a little ornament, and the Fergusons have a solid hood. The grills are also very different, but I don't have pictures to illustrate this. What amazes me, is my tractor is 50 years old, and runs like a top! How will todays tractor's run in 50 years?

Rich

 

[Thomas]

She doesn't look 50 years old,/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gifand well taken care of.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[RobS]

Thanks Rich. I was aware of the strife between the Fords and Fergusons as my in-laws have a '53 Golden Jubilee Ford. I understand it was designed specifically to get around the Ferguson patents. I'll have to pay more attention to the pre-NAA models from now on /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Youare]

Your Ferguson from this angle looks just like my 1952 8N except for your paint is a little better and I have a Wagner loader on mine. You are right about speed the N is a little fast in first gear and reverse is a little high also. Nice looking tractor, mine runs well and I hope my Kubota in 50 years runs as well.

Randy

 

[Jeff396]

<font color=blue>I hope my Kubota in 50 years runs as well</font color=blue>

I hope so too, I used the "this will most likely be the last tractor we will have to ever buy" thing to convince my wife to lay out all that cash on this toy.....er, tractor!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Jeff

 

[beenthere]

Seems the paint is that of the Ford, as I recall the Ferguson paint job was all slate grey. Also, the Ferguson (I had a TO-30) did not have position control of the 3 pt. Either you were going up or going down. Also, the left brake pedal was on the left side, with the clutch. For a hard left turn, one had to be real adept at using the left foot on the clutch and brake at the same time. It could be done, but not easily. The 9N Ford, I think, had the same design, but the 8N had both brake pedals on the right side. Also the 8N had position control for the 3 pt lift. Years ago, I heard that the inventor of the 3 pt system (didn't now it was Ferguson) originally approached John Deere with the idea, but was turned down, so he went to Ford. I don't know if there is any truth to it at all.

 

[jinman]

Rich, your tractor looks great, but the paint is deceptive. One of the easiest ways to spot the difference is that the 8N Ford has a flathead engine, whereas the TO-20 had overhead valves. Also, the carburetor/intake/exhaust on the TO-20 is on the right hand side, but on the 8N (and all Ns) it is on the left side of the engine. Your lift up hood for access to the gas tank is also a unique Ferguson feature, along with the little toolbox between the gas tank and the radiator. Ahhh shucks! Don't get me started. I used to love that little tractor when I was a kid. It made me feel like I could do anything./w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

JimI

 

[RichZ]

You're right about the paint, BT, it's not original, but it's pretty old also.
I've got position contol for the 3ph, I just had to have it rebuilt. Too bad Harry Ferguson isn't alive, or I'd complain to him that it only lasted 50 years!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gifActually it wasn't too bad, just part of the internal linkage cracked after 50 years of stress.
On the TO-20 the brake is on the right, and the clutch is on the left, so it's real easy to operate.
I never heard that Harry had approached John Deere with the 3ph. That's interesting.

Rich

 

[RichZ]

Jim, you sure know your TO-20's. It is a great tractor. Nothing not to like about it!

Rich

 

[Youare]

Jeff

I pitched the same line to my wife when I bought the Kubota. She asked me if I was going to trade the old Ford 8N in on the new one. I told her that I could get a better deal if I purchased the Kubota without a trade-in and put the Ford up for sale. She then made a statement that I didn't expect, she said if you got rid of your old tractor you would probably miss it. I quickly responded yes I would, so now I have both.

The Kubota is a nice machine and I plan on taking care of it so in 25 years it still is doing what I need it to.

Randy

 

[MJB]

It is a little known fact that the first tractors which were produced with the Ferguson three point hitch setup were actually made by David Brown, an English tractor maker, later bought out by Case. It is interesting that even the earliest versions of the 3ph were equipped with draft control. The Case connection is ironic because Case resisted the adoption of the system for many years because its president thought that the draft control scheme was "a cheatin' system, and phony as a two dollar bill". Even when Case finally did come out with its own version of the 3ph it did not have draft control. I don't know when position control was added to the system. I never read or heard anything about Ferguson approaching John Deere with the idea before Ford.

72% of all statistics are made up./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[s1120]

Rich,
Nice looking tractor. I always loved the look of the old “N” Fords, and the early Fergies. It has that kind of art deco look to it. I had also herd about the gearing on the Fords being to high, are the Fergusons better? People have also told me to avoid the Fords because of the PTO. Something about live, or not live. Does the Fergusons have this problem? Around here, all the Fergusons tend to be a bit more money then the Fords, I always thought it was because there were a ton more Fords then the Fergusons.

 

[RoyJackson]

It is a little known fact that the first tractors which were produced with the Ferguson three point hitch setup were actually made by David Brown, an English tractor maker, later bought out by Case

I wonder if that is the same David Brown who built Aston Martin sports cars? They always had the reputation for being "built like a truck".

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>...I wonder if that is the same David Brown...</font color=blue>

Because of his love of motor sports, tractor tycoon David Brown bought the company in 1947, to be honest the first DB was a bit of let down an underpowered 4-cylinder. However he quickly redeemed himself with the DB2, a powerful straight-six that could achieve 130mph and the build quality was superb, this car would set the pace for all subsequent Aston Martins.

In 1964 the DB5 became world famous, appearing in the James Bond film Goldfinger. Even today James Bond’s name is still synonymous with the marque, (the little BMW didn’t really suit him)

~~~from the Web~~~

 

[RichZ]

Paul, both the Fergusons and the Ford "N" series do not have live ptos. What that means is when you hit the clutch to change gears, the pto stops. Contrary to popular belief, it is really not much of a problem. All you have to do is install an over running clutch on your pto shaft. It just slips over your pto shaft, and you tighten it with one screw. Takes about 15 seconds to install. It allows the pto to spin in neutral while you have the clutch pressed in, and allows the implement to keep working while you have the clutch in. It also lets the implement keep spinning in neutral when you turn the engine off, so something with a lot of momentum like a rotary cutter won't keep your engine moving. The over running clutch costs about $25, and if you put it on, not having a live pto will not cause you any problems. That allows you to get a good working tractor very inexpensively, because the Fergusons are great tractors, and sure are cheap compared to new ones.

Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."

 

[s1120]

<font color=red>That allows you to get a good working tractor very inexpensively, because the Fergusons are great tractors, and sure are cheap compared to new ones.</font color=red>

Plus I think they are cool looking

 

[jinman]

Rich, I agree that the overrunning clutch is a "must have" for the Ford Ns and Fergusons. Its biggest advantage is to keep you from continuing to move after depressing the clutch (not good if you are heading toward a pond or your barn /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif). I actually like having the PTO engage as I let out on the clutch. I'm the "world's worst" at shearing off shear-bolts on my TC45 that has so much torque that if you engage the PTO too rapidly, you find yourself "going" for your spare shear-bolts very often. I carry two or three with me on the tractor all the time. On my Ford NAA, I sometimes get the PTO in a bind where I can't disengage the gearshift even when I depress the clutch. Because it has live hydraulics, I just raise the 3PH and that normally relieves the pressure. Not having live hydraulics on the TO-20 means you can't do that. It's not a big thing, but it is nice to be able to lift the 3PH with the clutch depressed. Having said all that, it ain't worth the $5k to $7k difference in price of a new tractor just to have live hydraulics./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

JimI