Agco and Their Troubles With Persian Orange

[sugarloafguy]

This is a follow up to a discussion that began in the Farmtrac thread.

AGCO has had an identity problem that actually began in 1985 and continues to this day. One of the fundamental problems with then Allis Chalmers was they were in about every other business but the tractor business which is what they were best known for in the first place. Pumps, electric components, hydro electric, oil field, construction and tractors. I am sure I missed a couple. When the agri business was sold due to their financial difficulties, the trademark black and orange "A" along with the Allis Chalmers name, persian orange paint code and their whole identity should have gone with it and whatever was left been re-named. Although AGCO is part of that (Gleaner Combine) what is left is a loss of corporate identity. Deutz Allis, KHD, AGCO Allis, now AGCO along with about 20 other brand names equals confusion in the marketplace. The Allis Chamers name and trademark "A" on a small energy services company in Texas is truly a shame.

AGCO has never totally understood they had two famous brands-Allis and Ferguson. Forget White, Fendt,Valtra and Challenger. Massey is their cash cow, Allis should have been next. Instead they decided to dabble in three virtually unknown brands, two of which were European in the first place and, like Deutz, had little name recognition and supply chain operations here. The last I knew, AGCO also did distribution and parts for Same-Deutz-Fahr in the US. I'm not sure Cat was famous for anything Agri with the exception of a track-style tractor in the mid-80's. White was on its way out as well, not unlike the heavy truck division of the same name. Instead of "being Allis" AGCO chose to be everything but. At the same time, their purchase of Massey from Varity was a smart move, a global leader and should have been used to re-build Allis instead of financing "start up" and unknown brand strategies. It is important to note that the AGCO tractor brand was only sold in North America and, memory serves me, the last tractor off the line in West Allis in 1985 went to Dubai. I am not saying that those four AGCO brands are bad but I see this as a marketing mistake when Massey sells more tractors worldwide than any other brand and your heritage is really Allis Chalmers.

In a 1984 interview, Archie Mccardell of International Harvester said the most difficult decision of his career was to sell the Farmall name, along with its trademark and related agricultural business to JI Case. Case tractors became International Harvester and Harvester became Navistar. Today, both live on in a very successful divesture that was a win-win for both the tractor and heavy truck business. International trucks are the undisputed leader in their industry and the merger of Case and Harvester created a broadline equipment maker with a brand identity going back to Cyrus Mccormick. Two different divisions of one famous Windy City manufacturer that are still recognizable and wildly successful.

As Jerry said in another post, maybe AGCO will finally allocate the resources to Massey that should have gone there all along. Don't bet on it. I think AGCO will continue this mix-and-match brand strategy that, while profitable, will continue to generate confusion in the marketplace and further erode its rich heritage. I would love to see newbie Mahindra's US sales figures for 2007 campared to the North American AGCO brand. My gut feeling is there are execs at AGCO that would have a reason to be ashamed. In the end, it appears that AGCO is ready to bury its persian orange past as it seeks to cultivate a global marketing strategy of lesser known brands that Massey Ferguson will continue to finance.

 

[rvaitor]

This is a follow up to a discussion that began in the Farmtrac thread.


In a 1984 interview, Archie Mccardell of International Harvester said the most difficult decision of his career was to sell the Farmall name, along with its trademark and related agricultural business to JI Case. Case tractors became International Harvester and Harvester became Navistar. Today, both live on in a very successful divesture that was a win-win for both the tractor and heavy truck business. International trucks are the undisputed leader in their industry and the merger of Case and Harvester created a broadline equipment maker with a brand identity going back to Cyrus Mccormick. Two different divisions of one famous Windy City manufacturer that are still recognizable and wildly successful.

This is confusing to me. Case and McCormick are separate aren't they? I thought that it was Case and New Holland that were sisters?

AGCO seems to still be strong in the midwest, not many active dealers in my area(South). They still seem to me to have a good reputation in the large equipment area.

I also agree they seem to have muddled some strong brand names and am not sure what the outcome will be.

Mahindra will be a force to recon with especially in the utility segment. They are putting money into some high profile venues(Nascar/Sprint).

 

[chh]

This disussion has already been moved to the MF section. Remeber when you tout brands as famous or call them unknowns that you are talking in the US, AGCO is looking worldwide. AC was all but dead in the tractor business at the time of its acquistion. Sorry AC fans.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I find it so strange that I keep hearing comments like how Mahindra will soon be #1 in tractor sales so they're a force to be dealt with. I hear how AGCO is a no name failure. I hear how it's suicide to drop "old names".

Let's see... By most accounts, MASSEY FERGUSON already IS #1 in WORLDWIDE sales of farm tractors. That must not count, as they're simply a division of that failure, AGCO. AGCO has 2 of the top 4 combine lines in the US and in the world market. Must not count for much. AGCO has grown their company, increased sales steadily, and is in absolutely no danger of folding their tent and leaving the game.

Case-IH-NEW HOLLAND-FIAT-ECT has had more name changes than Michael Jackson has had plastic surgeries in recent years, but that's OK. But when AGCO changes a name, thats bad marketing. Deere has over the years, bought their way into the tractor market. (Waterloo Boy Engine Co) Purchased their first efforts in the combine business (Holt & Best)from the guys who started Caterpillar, and have had licensing agreements resulting in "Green" Zetors, Yanmars, ect. That's OK, But let AGCO change a brand name, and they're guilty of poor marketing.

For whatever reason the management of IH laid an egg. They had no choice but to unload their AG line or sink into bankruptcy. They didn't keep the name International Harvester. It became Case IH once Tenneco held the cards. Not the same, just trying to associate with former glory. AGCO saved a dying Allis Chalmers for a few items in their inventory. Yet, AGCO managment is wrong for dropping the name of a dead entity. No matter how many tractors AGCO could have or would have painted the Allis Chalmers name on, NONE of them would have been Allis Chalmers. Just like none of todays CNH's are International Harvesters. Serious tractor buyers aren't interested in who's dried up old name is on a tractor 4 or 5 generations after the REAL brand went bye bye. They're interested in what sort of tractor the NEW brand has to offer. History is wonderful. Creating NEW history is what succeeding is all about.

Hmmmm. I'm thinking this has sunk into a good old fashioned "color war", and the concept of reality have left the building for a few people.

 

[rvaitor]

I find it so strange that I keep hearing comments like how Mahindra will soon be #1 in tractor sales so they're a force to be dealt with.

Serious tractor buyers aren't interested in who's dried up old name is on a tractor 4 or 5 generations after the REAL brand went bye bye. They're interested in what sort of tractor the NEW brand has to offer. History is wonderful. Creating NEW history is what succeeding is all about.

Hmmmm. I'm thinking this has sunk into a good old fashioned "color war", and the concept of reality have left the building for a few people.

If you are referring to my comment on Mahindra, time will tell, I don't think I said anything about them soon being #1. The Indian Company is strong and will be making inroads both in the tractor business and auto. Obviously, they aren't even competing in the big stuff that AGCO is offering.

I do think it matters when these historic names fade away. Call it whatever but I would like to see AGCO maintain them. Maybe it will become another Oldsmobile, Mercury, or one of the others - that would be sad.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

If you are referring to my comment on Mahindra, time will tell, I don't think I said anything about them soon being #1. The Indian Company is strong and will be making inroads both in the tractor business and auto. Obviously, they aren't even competing in the big stuff that AGCO is offering.

I do think it matters when these historic names fade away. Call it whatever but I would like to see AGCO maintain them. Maybe it will become another Oldsmobile, Mercury, or one of the others - that would be sad.

I wasn't talking to your comment specifically, but words to that effect I've read at a number of sites. Until it's in the boat, it's just a fish story. WHEN or IF Mahindra makes it to #1, then they can claim the bragging rights.

Every brand, every manufacturer has their own "numbers" that show their product as the market leader. I don't believe much of any of the sales propaganda from anyone.

In a perfect world, it would be nice to see all the old names stay and nothing change too radically, but let's face it, that ain't gonna happen. Times change. World economy changes. We haven't seen the last of the rebranding, mergers, corporate buyouts, and bankruptcies. Business is business. Some of these brands are more the "Edsel" or "Studabaker". Gone, and with a reason why.

 

[ToadHill]

Unless I'm mistaken Allis Chalmers got into the side businesses back in the early 50's when they bought the Old Lewis Allis company, who manufactured Electric motors, pumps, etc. We used to use them in the Mine I worked for. They were one of the few manufactures who still made motors that operated on 25 cycles.

 

[kevanos]

Someone had mentioned that you cannot purchased McCormick toys or branded items in the USA due to licensing restrictions. I purchased 2 McCormick toy tractors years ago when the brand was first revitalized by ARGO. They were sold in the U.S., and manufactured in the U.S. by Scale Models.

One their brochures, it states that "McCormick" is the trademark of McCormick Tractors International, not that its licensed from CNH or anything. (Compare to the Challenger tractors, which states the Challenger name is licensed from Caterpillar... and you can find Challenger toys/products in the USA).

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Someone had mentioned that you cannot purchased McCormick toys or branded items in the USA due to licensing restrictions. I purchased 2 McCormick toy tractors years ago when the brand was first revitalized by ARGO. They were sold in the U.S., and manufactured in the U.S. by Scale Models.

One their brochures, it states that "McCormick" is the trademark of McCormick Tractors International, not that its licensed from CNH or anything. (Compare to the Challenger tractors, which states the Challenger name is licensed from Caterpillar... and you can find Challenger toys/products in the USA).

I said you can buy McCormick toys in the US but only if the dealer selling them buys them from a dealer overseas. Argo can not market McCormick toys and merchandise in the US. I know this as a fact from my talks with the head of Ertl's farm toy division as well as talks with dealers who import from overseas.

Yes, Scale Models can make toys for McCormick but they can not legally sell them here. The toys are sent overseas and then sent back here by dealers for dealers.

Also, Case-New Holland can not market Ford toys either. You need to get Ford's permission first then the toys are marketed thru CNH dealers and other toy dealers. But only Ford has the rights to the Ford name even though CNH now owns the tractor division.

McCormick has the license for use on real tractors worldwide and Merchandise anywhere but here. CNH couldn't give away their rights to market their history and since McCormick wasn't a worldwide brand they only cared about keeping the marketing rights in North America.

 

[kevanos]

Again, I purchased by Scale Models McCormick toys from Scale Models and from dealers that purchase directly from Scale Models. They weren't shipped overseas and then back. Direct from factory to me, and direct from factory to dealer to me.