Aluminum vs Steel sizing

   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #1  

hard_yakka01

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Nov 30, 2004
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40
Location
Oakland, ORYGUN
Tractor
NH TN75D, Kubota M105S, M8200N
I've got a couple of plans for trailers, dual and tri wheel dumps and low boys. I want to build 1 dump vs buy a dump truck and 1 low boy to haul the tractor around. I'm a big fan of aluminum (except for when it comes in contact with food) and will build them out of that material.

The question is, the plans are 'off the shelf' calling out in stee the BOM, is there any general formula to convert to aluminum stock dimensions?
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #2  
Aluminum 1/3 as stiff as steel. It flexes more for the same stress. A general rule of thumb, to achieve similar stiffness (which is different than yield strength), you need to triple the width of a section, or increase its height by 40%.

For example, a 3x3x1/8" angle in steel could be replaced with a 3x3x3/8" angle in aluminum. Because Aluminum is 1/3 as heavy as steel, you end up with the same weight.

Because the stiffness of a beam is proportional to its height squared, if you were designing the trailer from scratch you would be better off changing the other dimension of the beam - you only need to add 40% to the height of the beam. Our 3x3x1/8 angle example would be replaced with a 4.25x4.25x1/8. Doing it this way, the aluminum version is just as stiff, but weighs 1/2 as much.

Also, be aware that hardened or tempered aluminum (for example 6061-T6) becomes un-hardened or O-temper wherever you weld it. Depending on the design, some joints are high-stress, others are not. If the welded joints are in high-stress areas, they will likely not be strong enough in aluminum compared to steel. To get an idea of how significant the change is, Mild steel welds might have a yield strength over 50,000 PSI. Hard T6 Aluminum might be 30,000 PSI. Soft Aluminum welds will easily be down around 10,000 PSI.

The only way to re-harden the aluminum is to very carefully bake it at a temperature within a few degrees of its melting point for a few hours. This means you need a tempering oven big enough to hold the whole trailer - not cheap!

The solution is to add gussets and bracing to the design to reduce the stress on the welded aluminum joints. An alternative to welding like using bolted or rivited joints will maintain more of the strength of the aluminum in the critical areas.

- Rick
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #3  
its not as simple as changing the size of the metal, aluminum is alot more likely to get fatigue cracks than steel, and wherever there is a weld the heat treat is no longer there. thats why many early aluminum horse trailers had so many problems with cracking, the trailer manufacturers just simply substitutrd aluminum for steel and didnt realize that aluminum has different needs when designing for strength and fatigue. if you look at an aluminum trailer ya will see alot more things like guessets, radioused corners rather than sharp corners, and other features needed to make a reliable aluminum framework. also you will need to be carefull about galvinic corrosion anywheres you join steel such as axles and hitches, to the aluminum frame. i see the picture of the plane in your profile and assume thats where you get your love of aluminum from, but if ya look in an aluminum plane fusilage you will see that where its fabricated looks nothing like a simular structure would be if it were steel
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #4  
I have to agree with markct, that substituting aluminum really turns into a re-design, more than a simple substitution. Thats why my post got so long.

If the main thing you are after is corrosion resistance and not weight decrease, you could substitute stainless instead. Most grades of stainless would have properties that exceed the mild steel most kit-built trailers are made out of, so it shouldn't be an issue to just substitute the exact same profiles.

With the way steel and aluminum prices have gone up, stainless might not be that much more expensive anymore!

If you really want to build with aluminum, another successful strategy is to overbuild by a fairly large "margin of ignorance". "We don't really know how strong those welds are, but it doesn't matter because its 5x stronger than it really needs to be to start with" kind of thing.

- Rick
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #5  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The question is, the plans are 'off the shelf' calling out in stee the BOM, is there any general formula to convert to aluminum stock dimensions? )</font>

Aluminum gives up a lot of stiffness to steel. Probably on the order of 2:1 or 3:1 depending on alloys.

HOWEVER! When a square aluminum tubing section becomes 2x thicker, it becomes something like 4x stiffer. In other words, it doesn't take radically larger stock size to re-gain the stiffness you lose from going from steel to aluminum. Unfortunately, this doesn't work like that on angle stock, flat stock, or strap stock. If you stay with square tubing of a fat cross section, you can build very light and strong... even if the tubing walls are not radically thicker. Aluminum also has great fatigue strength in the better alloys like 6061 T-6. Ask any 747 pilot! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #6  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If the main thing you are after is corrosion resistance and not weight decrease, you could substitute stainless instead. )</font>

Corrosion is a huge problem on Al. I have known corrosion to cause embrittlement and failure in Al more so than steel. It needs to be painted with a good weather proof protectant.
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing #7  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Aluminum also has great fatigue strength in the better alloys like 6061 T-6. Ask any 747 pilot! )</font>


true, but once you weld it you lose the temper of it and thus the temper and fatigue resistance is less. if you notice, most airplane parts are riveted and bolted, very little welding, and the parts that are welded are then heat treated after welding, this cant usualy be done in a home shop since it would take a huge oven for a trailer
 
   / Aluminum vs Steel sizing
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Aluminum like comes from large AL boats and living in Australia where it seems they have embraced all forms of AL construction vs steel. 5052 and 5086 alloys versus 6061 is all I've ever used for the reason many of you have pointed out, welding negates temper (H6).
Thanks for all your input!
 

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