Angle Broom Bristles Will Not Turn

[Gadgetnut]

Help, please. We've had uncharacteristically heavy snow here and I was using the Bobcat 84" Angle Broom to brush the snow. It kept snowing and I brushed the road three times during the day. I had never used it more than once a day before. Anyway snow had built up, caked in the bristles, and I didn't notice it... anyway something has sheered off because the tool's rotor (spindle) engages and the bristle roll bounces a little but does not turn.

(I bought this tool used because of what I anticipated to be very light occasional use. It had already had a lot of use, and from the day I received it, I noticed the bristle roll seemed kind of "loose and sloppy" on the spindle, but I thought this might be intentional for protection against sudden stops with all that momentum...

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a shear pin to replace? Is there a sacrificial spline? Ideally I would like to get the tool operating again immediately because my driveway needs clearing today... but I might be open to an entire new brush kit (it probably needs it) but I think that's just the bristles not the entire "hair roller" assembly.

I'll start by pulling the motor off the end and see what I can find. Thanks for any input.

 

[Gadgetnut]

I'll followup with what I found out. If you loosen the four bolts that fasten the motor to the end of the Angle Broom, the whole motor just slides off the end. It's heavy, I set it on the floor. The motor rotor comes out about five inches or so in a hexagonal shape. This holds up the driver's side of the brush roller and is intended to mate into a like shaped receptacle on the end of the roller.

My roller collar is no longer hexagonal, it is sheered out to round, thus the hex spindle just turns loose in the large hole and the brushes don't move.

I called Bobcat and the price of the new roller is about $1600 and weighs 128 pounds. I was quoted $700 for new bristles.

I don't know if there's another way to mechanically wedge or mate these two parts up.

By the way, for those contemplating a used Angle Broom purchase, I noticed quite a bit of slop in the movement of the brush when it arrived. I imagine the dealer who sold this knew the inevitable pattern of wearing it out and sold at just the right time. I've probably put no more than 20 hours on it.

I won't have saved very much having bought this used tool! Live and learn.

 

[3Bladz]

Have a machine shop weld on a new piece maybe

 

[some zilch]

i work at a bobcat dealer, and this happens more often than you might think.

Here's what i do to fix them....Take the hex drive off the end of the hydraulic motor, or find a big nut the same size. I think they are 2.25", but i could be wrong, its been a while. Get 12" or so of 1/4" x 1" flat steel bar. weld one end of said steel bar to the nut, and using a torch, heat the flat bar up and hammer it around the outside of the nut, so in the end, you formed a hex shape, then cut off any extra flat bar, and weld the hex closed. Now you should be left with a hex shape that fits snuggly over the hex drive on the hyd motor.

Now using a torch, or whatever you may have, go and cut out a hex "hole" in the end of the broom's "roller" so that the hex shaped shape you made earlier can be put into the roller, and welded in. Basically what you end up doing is "rebuilding" the hex shaped "hole" in the end of the roller. I've done it several times w/ good results

 

[Gadgetnut]

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I have a good welding shop in town. I'll run this "rebuild the hex socket idea" past them before I order the whole new roller & freight from Bobcat. I'll let you know how it works out!

 

[DEWFPO]

Take pics if you can. Thanks. DEWFPO

 

[tommu56]

Gadgetnut
Try looking for a 4 wheel axel nut wrench the same size or one from a semi trailer axel they might be the same size and save you fabracting one and just weld it to the shaft

link to what I was thinking
http://www.otctools.com/products/category.php?cat=6


tom

 

[Gadgetnut]

Tom, thanks for suggestion; I was trying to think of some existing hex nut piece that I could buy and weld on rather than fabricate. DEWFPO, here are two photos I snapped with my cell phone. Not sure if you can tell what's going on, I may need to take better quality photos. Anyway the first photo shows the end of the hydraulic motor rotor, as it terminates in a hex shank. The second photo is looking into the end of the bristle roller assembly-- what used to be a female hex receptacle has been sheared away to round, thus the motor turns but the bristles don't rotate any more. When I bought this tool I noticed an enormous amount of play in the brush, I think this was just waiting to happen.

Hydraulic Motor End

Bristle Roller End

 

[DEWFPO]

Thanks Gadgetnut, I think Tom's solution might just be a viable option. You'll have to ream out that center section on the brush to accept the socket tool and then have it welded in, but it looks like it would work just fine. The tighter the fit, the better. Good luck. DEWFPO

 

[3Bladz]

Can you just weld a cheap 6 point impact socket to it?

 

[DEWFPO]

I wouldn't go cheap on this part. That's why that receiver section is rounded out. Cheap, soft metal IMO.

DEWFPO

 

[Philscbx]

Hydraulic Motor End

This is the socket 3" that you will need.
OTC Tool Manufacturer for Cars and Trucks : Products
I will assemble images in a moment for your repair.

 

[Philscbx]

I have to admit stumbling onto this crisis is somewhat bazaar being I just completed the same repair last week.

So with sparks and camera firing off of most of the steps, I proceeded to make a documented file for myself thinking this only happens to me.

Then the fun began.

These links that follow will show each image full size for details needed.

Large views
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3172803731_7cf28f5d70_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/3173637126_04075be630_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/3173637244_1487994139_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/3172803771_30f736f4b1_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/3172803911_dbb900c166_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3264/3173637174_947926b9e6_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1152/3173637326_367ea4b2f6_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1191/3173637088_b0c9778f08_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1393/3172803993_ab5dbd3f65_b.jpg

Good Luck with repair, and if you need any live tip, feel free to call me @ 763 639 2113 or SMS.

Having new help run the equipment, it was noticed that the broom motor must have had an issue with concrete building in the way.

The side frame the motor is mounted on was bent outward. This side of the machines frame is thinner material so that it can flex with the drums alignment.

This repair was a bit difficult getting the frame as straight
as possible before assembly.

Shims were added to true it dead on.
When the drive nut fits snug in it's new fitting in the drum, this is when it has to be true as possible.

*This is why grinding inside of socket is important, that it fits loose.
* Also, you don't want tool steel hardness running on the drive nut. This is the other reason to pre-heat with cutting torch the weld zone, and do not shock cool it off when done which will re-harden the surface.

* To lesson some of the wear at the drum fitting, try not to start & stop broom while it's in the air.
Let broom rest lightly on the ground first, check that it is in level contact, and then start the broom.

This also prevents the bristles from over flexing and wearing out.

I added notes tonight made in each image that should help when the going gets tough.

*Notice also where I mention 'preheat' prior to welding in the image related.

This broom is back on the job as of today, and everyone is happy, as well as myself when the only option left was all new parts not in stock.

It could easily have reached up to $3000, or spend another $5000 for new one, or a used one for $4200, and add new brooms to it.

But they didn't notice the bent side frame, so it was basically a pile of scrap.

So from the dealer's shop inspection, it was placed back onto the trailer and headed back to the monster garage.

Both stands were also damaged and had to be cut out and made from scratch with thicker pipe and pads.

I now use trailer hitch hair pin clips 3/16" drilled through stand legs to keep them from falling down and the curbing folding them under machine. It works great now.

The loop of the Hydraulic hoses also were anchored near the left stand leg with padded steel straps to keep them in tight to side frame.

This is where a combination of hyd 45 degree angle adaptors could streamline the hose angle at the motor.

Total parts so far were in the $200 range with some torture thrown in.
No band-aid was used in this repair.

*One major tip,
there is going to be a lot of grinding, so prepare with sound proof head set, goggles, mask, gloves and fans, or take it outside. But you knew that already.

Even if money was no object, I still wasn't going to spend a pile just because someone said I had to.

Next is the coupler holder when broom is removed.
Grungy fittings will be a thing of the past.

Happy New Year,
Regards,
Phil
Mpls

 

[Gadgetnut]

Phil, wow, thanks for the detailed information! Exactly what I needed! You hit the nail on the head: bent frame/poor alignment is an issue with my angle broom, as well. My mechanic/welder friend is coming by this week to look at my angle broom for the first time and we'll use your photographs and instructions to guide us. You provide so much information, I will definitely followup here with questions as we go along and I'll post details of our progress. Thank you again. Happy New Year to you, Phil, and just let me know when I can buy lunch!

 

[Gadgetnut]

Followup: Phil, I wanted to print out large versions of your photographs but the links you posted are not working for me. Could you link us to large individual photos please? Thanks.

 

[Philscbx]

The Original links to large images have been reset. Sorry about the hassle.
Then the fun began.

These links that follow will show each image full size for details needed.

ALL NEW LINKS

worn out drum / 640 size
reset *http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3172803731_9b96ac80e5_o.jpg


socket / 640 size
reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/3173637126_9164bdc485_o.jpg


bevel grind / 500 size
reset* http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/3173637244_bb8c1f49f2_o.jpg


grind to fit socket / 640 size
reset *http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/3172803771_041137f23c_o.jpg


cut in half & welded in / 1100 size
Reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/3172803911_84039a19a1_o.jpg


speed up paint drying / 1100
Reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1393/3172803993_30940221f7_b.jpg


verify alignment / 700 size
Reset * http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3264/3173637174_ba7b15a780_b.jpg


prep motor for paint / 1100 size
Reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1191/3173637088_ca1690a7d0_b.jpg


drive adaptor test / 1100 size
Reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1152/3173637326_8725b5dcb5_b.jpg


8 image view / 1000 size
Reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1174/3172891431_702eeee58a_o.jpg

 

[Philscbx]

There is one detail that may need attention prior to welding in the socket.
At the spot weld step, this would be a good place to test fit the drive adaptor in place to the frame & into the drum.
This could save grinding and requiring further welding.

There are other steps one could take by drilling 1/2" holes into 3 sides of socket at the point they line up with the cross section of the 1/2" drive plate of the drum. Then weld fill them in making a few more attach points.

It's maybe overkill, but time will tell if that is necessary.
I'm just going by the shear fact of the start/stop shock loading that is hard to eliminate at this time. I'm currently working on solving it to be softer.

cut in half & welded in / 1100 size
Reset * http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/3172803911_84039a19a1_o.jpg

 

[Philscbx]

Happy New Year to you, Phil, and just let me know when I can buy lunch!

Appreciate the offer Gadgetnut. Perhaps a happy hour tour is due out that way.
I have a Honda VTX 1800 that is always staring at me wondering when is it's turn to go somewhere.
I just now put a quilt over him, like a parrot trick.

Your Welcome, and your partner should have your machine back in action soon.
Regards,
Phil

 

[Philscbx]

Today we ended up having a issue with the motor to drive adaptor bolts coming loose during a 2 hour tour down town.
It took out the large diameter O-Ring.
Cleaned it up, put in new O-Ring, and this time used red locktite on the 12 point x 1/2" headed bolts.

I think if I had to do it over again, I'd use a 3-1/2" socket or larger and insert urethane pads for the 3" drive to reduce the shock, and vibration.

 

[Gadgetnut]

Hi, Phil. Thanks for the feedback. Are the bolts that came loose the four large ones that hold the motor to the outside of the frame? Is it true that red loctite should help prevent accidental loosening by vibration, but that you can still manually break the loctite and remove the bolts with a wrench?

I printed out your photographs and I'm going to transport my angle broom to my friend's shop today for welding and repair... maybe I will hold off the repair for a couple more days, though... do you expect to be using the angle broom again in the next couple days, and will you update us again on how it's holding up?

I may be completely wrong but it doesn't seem like urethane pads (to fill the gap of a larger socket) would hold up very well.

In terms of minimizing shock to the entire assembly, I like your suggestion of starting and stopping the broom rotation only while the brush is lightly engaged on the road surface. This sounds like it should be a "best practices" procedure for all angle broom operators to minimize these types of problems.