Any experience with "lighter" tire foam?

[MikeOConnor]

Hi all,

I was at the tire place today and the sales person pitched me tire-foaming, saying that the new stuff is way lighter than the old foam. He's going to get me some more info and call me, but I was curious if anybody has had any experience with it.

I really like the idea of foaming the tires for the 1850, but have steered away from it for fear that I was adding too much weight and might overload the motors/axles. Lighter foam might just be the ticket.

 

[American Bulldog]

Hi all,

I was at the tire place today and the sales person pitched me tire-foaming, saying that the new stuff is way lighter than the old foam. He's going to get me some more info and call me, but I was curious if anybody has had any experience with it.

I really like the idea of foaming the tires for the 1850, but have steered away from it for fear that I was adding too much weight and might overload the motors/axles. Lighter foam might just be the ticket.

First, there are no axles.

Second, the only time that the wheel motors would feel the heavier tires is when they are off the ground.

Why would you want to foam the tires anyway? Do they keep losing a bead?

I would think that the added weight would do no harm to your machine.

 

[ponytug]

Dear Mike,

No worries about weight in the wheel- as American_bulldog pointed out, it only translates to wheel load if it is airborne. When I did the math for CaCl2 the amount of weight that you could put in the wheel is much less than the wheel is loaded normally.

I can't speak for new/old foam weights, but it is still foam, and doesn't weigh that much either way.

All the best,

Peter

Hi all,

I was at the tire place today and the sales person pitched me tire-foaming, saying that the new stuff is way lighter than the old foam. He's going to get me some more info and call me, but I was curious if anybody has had any experience with it.

I really like the idea of foaming the tires for the 1850, but have steered away from it for fear that I was adding too much weight and might overload the motors/axles. Lighter foam might just be the ticket.

 

[EddieWalker]

Since the tractor and it's axles rest "ON" the tires, what difference does it make how heavy the tires are? Only in high speed applications, off road situations and operating in soft soils does it matter what the tires weigh. I have the tires foamed in my backhoe and compact tractor. I can't tell any difference in drivablity, but when lifting heavy implements with my 3pt hitch, I'm much more stable now.

Consider how many tractors have weights added to the fronts of them and how that is actually added weight to the axles and drive line. Tire weights have also been around for decades and are bolted onto the lug nuts. This is similar to foamed tires in their weight adding ability.

I notices a huge gouge in the front tire of my backhoe yesterday. It's like the end of a crow bar went into the tire. If my tire was not foamed, I have have to buy a new tire. Since it's foamed, I didn't even know when it happened and it's made no difference on my use of the tractor. I just keep on going.

As for lighter foam, it's like anything else new that comes along. The people selling it willl tell you how great it is, but until it's passed the test of time, you really don't know what it will do. Regular tire foam is the greatest thing that I've come across besides a grapple. It's something that I regret not doing sooner and something that I highly recomend.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[J_J]

Anything you add to a machine on wheels, is added weight. The unit is supported by the axle or shaft as in the hyd motors. It is still weight.

I found this on an Internet search.

What about the weight of a foam fill tire?



Adding fill is the same as having the tire water-filled.

Forklift tire, Foam Fill tire, solid tire, industrial tire - All your industrial and forklift tires from Houston based Bird Tire Sales & Service.

Like Eddie said, the payback is in the long run. Fill them now, and you will not know that you could have had 10 flat tires in a couple of years.

 

[Rip]

I foamed the turf tires on my 1845 about 4-5 years ago with regular foam (as used in skid-steer & other). Went from 42 lbs/wheel & tire to 185 lbs/ea. No problems since.

Increased stability due to weight low & wide and traction in my dry/rocky environment.

Also made ride MUCH firmer. Would probably not help traction in soft or muddy conditions as tires do not conform to terrain as well.

Lighter foam would probably be better for all-around traction and ride comfort, yet prevent tire & wheel damage the same.

 

[KentT]

Anything you add to a machine on wheels, is added weight. The unit is supported by the axle or shaft as in the hyd motors. It is still weight.

JJ,

The "dead weight" of loaded tires or wheel weights sits directly on the ground, and is only a factor if a tire is lifted off the ground. There is some small impact on rotational force, since the added weight has a flywheel effect to either start or stop spinning.

In comparison, weight added to the frame or body of a machine is transferred to the ground through the axles, shafts or wheel hubs. This weight could be in the form of an attachment when lifted, suitcase weights, or a weight box for example.

Wheel weights and loaded tires on smaller machines tend to increase wear in keyways on axle shafts and things like that, rather than increased bearing wear or broken axles, etc. The exception is when a spinning tire suddenly grabs traction -- the force of that heavier "spinning flywheel" that gets suddenly transferred to the body of the machine can then snap things.

Overall, wheel weights and loaded tires have much, much less detrimental effect than hanging weight on a machine....

 

[American Bulldog]

If you add too much weight, you will have trouble going up steep hills, as the motor and wheel traction are fighting the added weight.

 

[J_J]

I foamed the turf tires on my 1845 about 4-5 years ago with regular foam (as used in skid-steer & other). Went from 42 lbs/wheel & tire to 185 lbs/ea. No problems since.

Increased stability due to weight low & wide and traction in my dry/rocky environment.

Also made ride MUCH firmer. Would probably not help traction in soft or muddy conditions as tires do not conform to terrain as well.

Lighter foam would probably be better for all-around traction and ride comfort, yet prevent tire & wheel damage the same.

That is 740 more lbs that you have to pull around, but if you have the HP, no problem. Did you notice any difference going up hills?

 

[Rip]

Sorry I had not been monitoring the forum regularly. No I did not notice any power loss even at my 8000+ ft elevation although there may have been some. While I was not given a choice of a lighter foam by the place that did it, I welcomed the extra weight down low as stability is almost my main concern on my property. The main negative for my not-so-young bones was the much firmer ride, which a lighter foam would probably do better at.

The total non-issue of flat tires or rock cuts (plus the weight & stability) was the real positive. The wheel motors & brakes are very stout on my machine and I have not had (nor anticipate) any issues with them. Might not be the case on lighter models.

I would foam my tires again, but may well consider the lighter foam for better ride. Also note that lighter foam may provide better traction in situations where the ability of the tire to conform to soft surfaces would help.

 

[J_J]

Rip,

Just curious about some things.

Is there any air pressure in a foamed tire? If not, did they punch a hole in the top of the tire to get the foam in and push the air out? Is it possible you could get a flat spot in the tire/foam caused by a sudden fall? Do all your tires have the same outside circumference after putting the foam in? What happens if you put more or less in a tire. Do they put in the same amount of liquid in each tire, or just fill it until it comes out the top of the tire? Do they cut the stem off.

 

[Rip]

JJ,
No air pressure in a foamed tire. No flat spotting even under extended parking in one position. Not sure how they get tire entirely foam filled (without air pocket), but they use a fairly elaborate special machine to do the process (I did not watch as I had to drop off the tires & wheels and pick them up a day or two later). As the liquid foam sets up a certain way, they can not be filled less or more. A given tire & wheel size gets a specific quantity of liquid foam. Foams are however available in several densities and by several manufactures.

Same exact size & shape (profile) as when inflated to rated air pressure. Still have same load rating (but in reality I would suspect would handle significantly more). The valve stems were not cut off, but if they were to get torn off in use, no problem.

Foam filling has been used for many years in skid-steers and other construction and industrial equipment so is not new or novel at all. Foamed tires are listed as factory approved options by many OEMs such as CAT. Is not as common in agricultural equipment as it is permanent and so can not adjust to suit seasonal or soil conditions. All major towns will have a tire dealer that can do the procedure. When the tire does eventually wear out, it and the interior foam must be cut off the wheel.....a bit of a procedure I hear.

By the way, my foam-filled tires & wheels (12x25 turf, I think) weighed 185 lbs each versus 42 lbs before foam, so "only" 570 lb additional weight.

 

[J_J]

I looked at the site to get an estimate for foam fill. and the cost for my 26 x 12 x 12 tire would be about $493.00 . I can't believe that they want that much. That kind of money will buy a lot of tires.

Air Free Tires - Easy Foam Program Pricing

 

[Rip]

Foam filling tires is not really about saving money on tires or tire repairs, it is more about less down-time on commercial projects (a routine flat can put a man & machine out of commision for a day) plus the added weight - stability - traction.

In my case a side-wall rock cut, torn valvestem, or even tire off the rim was a MAJOR hassle on my very steep 30 - 40 deg hillsides. Had a few and found a total solution - not cheap though (although I do not recall what I actually paid).

I am not aware of a cheap DIY foam-equivilant. Certainly the various liquid 'slime' type formulas reduce flats due to nail or thorn type punctures. Gemplers has some fairly heavy duty types (I use in my Polaris Ranger tires) used frequently in AG equipment, and for many folks, that may be a good solution to their problems. One can use short metal valve stems or weld stem guards to deal with that issue which PT wheels seem particularly prone to. Other liquid soultuons will add weight and are not pemenant as foam.

 

[Big Wave D]

I don't know where I read a person's post about when his tires 'wore out', but he had them recapped.

Instead of having to cut off old tires, mount new tires and having to redo foam again.

I don't know how specialized a tire merchant has to be to accomplish this, but it sounds like the best way to handle replacement.

It seems like one is going to have a rather heavy outlay of cash for the first time around for the foaming. I'd like to not have to redo the foam every time I needed new 'treads'.

 

[ponytug]

Wow. I have never seen a complete wheel (tire & rim) go through an on rim recapping, but for the lower end tires (continuous tread that is cut to fit), I guess you could do it with a low temperature vulcanization.

Never would have guessed it was possible.

For me, it would be about tire age and sidewall damage that would condemn the tire.

Thanks for the information.

All the best,

Peter

I don't know where I read a person's post about when his tires 'wore out', but he had them recapped.

Instead of having to cut off old tires, mount new tires and having to redo foam again.

I don't know how specialized a tire merchant has to be to accomplish this, but it sounds like the best way to handle replacement.

It seems like one is going to have a rather heavy outlay of cash for the first time around for the foaming. I'd like to not have to redo the foam every time I needed new 'treads'.