Any septic system pros out there?

[Claytonfarms]

I am having a new septic system installed, some of the things the installer is doing do not make sense to me so I have a couple of questions.

By the way our county would not let me install the system, I had to have a licensed installer do the work but I do not think he knows what he is doing.

First the inlet and outlet on the tank, the tank came with rubber boots and clamps for the pipes the boots were pushed into the tank when it was delivered. He did not use these. He left the boots on the inside and filled the outside with some type of cement, no clamps on the boots. After 3 days, the cement has cracked and is falling out.

Next the tank has 2 manhole covers. On the outlet end he did not put a riser on the manhole, he cut a hole in the manhole cover and put a 6" diameter extension pipe to above grade. The extension pipe is glued to the outlet tee so neither the pipe or the manhole cover can be removed but it is loose since the cement is falling out. By the way neither of the manhole covers are sealed to the tank. It is a 2 chamber tank with no other access to the outlet chamber except the 6" diameter pipe and the tank is 2' below grade. The inlet has no riser currently.

Last but not least we have clay soil where the tank is. We have had rain for 2 days since the tank was installed and partially backfilled.When I went there today there are streams of water coming thru the side walls 3 feet below grade and 1 foot below the tank, the water is filling the hole almost a foot deep. The backfill is so saturated I can push a 2x4 5' into the fill by hand. I did pump the water from around the tank into the tank so hopefully it will not float.

The county was there 3 days ago and said everything looked good and they passed the system.

So my questions are: Should I be concerned about the connections at the tank? Am I going to run into problems with the current outlet tee / manhole setup? Will the runoff water be a problem after the tank is completely backfilled and covered? I plan to live there for the next 10 - 15 years and I do not want any problems that could be fixed or prevented now.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Axe Man]

Check to see if the installer and inspector have the same last name. After having an addition put on our house and passed inspection, the roof started leaking. After trying to get the contractor out to fix the problem with no success we got another contractor out who said the wrong shingles were used ( it was a low pitched roof ). When I went to the township offices to speak with the inspector I was told he no longer works for the township.....He was now working for his brother.......the contractor who built our addition.

 

[Claytonfarms]

I do not think they are related. I was going to ask the county inspector about the issues I saw but since it passed I do not want to deal with the county. The whole thing was rushed because the state changed the septic code and a system put in a week from now would have cost me $14,000 more to install and a monthly maintenance fee.

It is sad that the county and the installer just wanted it done quick rather than done correctly. I could have waited 6 months to have the job completed but I did not want to pay the extra $ and the permit was going to expire.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Have you paid him all his fee yet? Do you have a written contract? Does your contract spell out workmanship and guarantee his products and installation. Those things make you case stronger if you arbitrate or litigate. Does your state require a contractor's licence? Usually the enforcement there is way better than county inspectors, he could be fined or lose his license.

You got royally screwed. I agree it is obvious the county is not going to support you in this. I would get another certified installer, pay him a consultant fee, and get a statement from him on the workmanship and quality of the installation. Uncover what you have to and take lots of pictures, try to get your new installer to get you pictures of a compliant installation.

Get a lawyer to write a letter (should not cost but $2-300) requesting corrections required and spell out the details and give him a time limit to take corrective action. If he balks, get an estimate from the new contractor to fix the system properly. File a claim in small claims court to collect the fee to fix plus ripple effects. If you build a good documented case he will no doubt lose and get a good lecture from the judge on business ethics.

Ron

 

[Egon]

Think long and hard about how you will proceed. You don't want to get involved with the new rules.

 

[Stick895]

OTOH, you really don't want a messed up septic system. If it's not working right and discharging sewerage, then the Peoples Republic of Maryland will probably fine you and make you spend the money to put in a new system.

 

[dave1949]

Maybe you could ask the septic tank supplier about the intended installation method, just to verify what seems to be how the tank was designed to be installed.

There is nothing to prevent you from correcting the installation yourself. Although irritating, that would be one way to get what you want with no hassles.

 

[lockhaven]

I agree with Dave, get some thin set cement and add the fiberglass filler that is used for ceramic tiles. As far as the inspector and the installer being related they probably are not, but that does not mean they are not long time buddies in fact you could bet on it. Baltimore County inspectors are the most corrupt bunch I have ever dealt with so I would suspect yours to be similar. Now that the inspection is done anything you do is OK as long as no one is after you, so do not make enemies with the installer or inspector.

 

[HeLa]

inspectors and installers, especially in rural areas, are often good friends. this is not ALWAYS a bad thing. for instance, if you need immediate service that would require a permit before work could start or a minor repair that would cost you more in permits than it's worth, a local installer might be willing to go bend the rules a bit to save you some time and money knowing that he won't get whacked by the inspector. don't ask me how i know.

definitely document everything with pictures and dates. log phone calls and inquiries to the installer with date/time and substance of the discussion.

citing your change in law, i would be careful poking at the beehive with a letter from an attorney. i do, however, agree with having another local installer come out and do a "peer review" consultation of your current installer's work. if you plan to move ahead with an action against the installer, have the consultant prepare this in writing. it'll likely be obvious to him, but make sure that he is aware of why you are asking him to do this. if you don't plan to move ahead with action against the first installer, you'll still likely want to know what is right/wrong with your current situation.

if possible i would try to resolve it with the installer first, or cut him loose and have someone else finish the work. NOTE: in some jurisdictions (like mine) the installer is tied to the permit. i.e. you have to name your installer on your permit (they're licensed with board of health and some other organizations here) and only that installer can do the work on that permit. so, in my jurisdiction, if i cut your installer loose i would have to acquire a new permit ... under the new laws. if all your inspections are complete, you *could* just make the necessary changes yourself. this might be easiest in the end. with all of the bureaucracy (especially with your change in law) surrounding these systems, it may be better to have fewer rather more people aware/involved.

i'm not a pro but i've done a good amount of research on the topic in the last year. i don't understand your outlet-side chamber riser situation. if i understand the install, how would you ever change/clean your effluent filter or pump that side of the tank? 6" is way too small for good pump access. i'm assuming that he does plan to put a riser on at least the inlet-chamber side? i would demand access, if not risers, on both chambers for pumping, effluent filter maintenance, inspection, baffle repair/replacement, etc… you don't want to be digging the tank up any more often than you have to.

all of the pipes in my tank are held in with hydraulic cement, but it's an OLD tank & system. all of the newer ones that i looked at use rubber/plastic mounting which sounds like the what came with your tank but was discarded by the installer.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I have no risers on the manholes - must dig each time. I intend to correct that.

You really only need access to the front of the tank (or front tank) for pumping. Thats where the solids will collect.

As far as I know, the inlet pipe is not sealed to the tank well.. Mine has gaps. This usually is not a problem as the water level should never reach that high. The baffle to the other tank and the outlet pipe are lower. Ground water will tend to push into the tank rather than sewage come out if the water table gets that high.

The 6" pipe in the other manhole cover is quit possibly a vent, though now a days the main house stack is used as a vent instead, maybe yours is different.

I prolly wouldn't call it 'getting screwed', but it very well could be sloppy work. I would take pics and call in another guy to have a quick look.