are tracks essential?

JonnyMc · Mar 13, 2011

Hello all. I'm pretty new to the forum and really new to the land clearing business (if you wanna call what I am doing land clearing)...so new that I do not own any equipment yet. I am in the process of starting a land services business focusing on forest and wildlife habitat management. I am NOT looking to do full-time mulching although I want to offer mulching, mowing, light excavation as a part of my business, and thus need a machine I spoke with a Bobcat dealer (who also happens to be a good family friend) and he told me that if initial cost is a concern, which it is, why not try using a rubber tired (entirely rubber, not filled with air) machine with steel tracks, or tire chains as needed?

So thats why I came here...I figured you all could tell me why tracks are essential if that is in fact the case. I've just noticed that a lot of threads complain about these non-dedicated machines (e.g. Bobcat, ASV, Tak, etc.) having trouble with the track undercarriage at about 1500-2000 hours, so why not just go with a cheaper option that seemingly would have less maintenance? Obviously none of you run tire-machines, so I just want to know why.

Thanks for the help and please excuse the ignorance if the answer is something obvious that I overlooked. Like I said, I'm new to this and I want to make sure my initial investment doesn't come back to bite me.

Rustyiron · Mar 13, 2011

I say that a skid steer with over the tire steel stacks will run circles around a CTL in the woods and wet/damp soil conditions that you will see in the woods, period! Now on the other hand, if you need to work in swampy/spongey conditions, go with the CTL. I have done clearing/grubbing with both and others that I have spoken with agree. I like the track machines for fine grading and situations where you need flotation, but I never understood guys wearing out very expensive belts and u/c parts when cheaper tire and tracks will get the job done. Stay away from the ASV/Cat CTL's (older Cat) I heard a new "bottom" will run you close to $10,000! I use the Grouser OTT and am happy with them. My ideal set up (if you could not have one of each, tire/track) would be to have a reg. SSL with a set of OTT and the Loghering track set up. The best of both worlds, with one machine. Just "dress" it up as your conditions require.
To put it simply, rubber tracks=flotation and stability.
Tires with OTT= traction with some increased flotation and tire protection.

art · Mar 13, 2011

Rusty Iron,
I believe you are right on from what I've seen. When tearing out there is nothing any better then hardy steel compared to rubber! When installing there is nothing smoother then a piece of light footed easy to cut soft rubber to the turf!

It's not to say that you can't go either way but the cost of the work per repair will get you!!!!

I was shocked to find that for about 3600 you could get a steel track conversion for a 121 hoe(I thought it was cheap) but then to have to change it a couple of times a year!

fishfactor · Mar 13, 2011

Both have their advantages. I don't know the cost associated with a tire machine with steel tracks when something breaks. We did a demo on a S330 with steel tracks over the tires. The thing that concerned us was the damage to keeper trees. If you rub against one it causes pretty severe damage before you even feel it. Working in pine plantations, etc this could cause problems with the land owner. The rubber tracks you can rub a tree and cause little if any damage.

Rubber tracks will not wear out for a long time when you are in the dirt all the time. Our first set went about 1000 hours before the damage from stumps, etc caused them to break. New set is about $4000 so that's only $4/hour. Had to replace one idler at about 1400 hours at $700. The key is maintenance. Rotate the tracks, sprockets, etc as they recommend.

Don't even consider only tires with no tracks at all. You will get stuck before you ever get started and stay that way most of the time.

If you plan on doing residential work, the steel tracks will be a concern again. They cause damage to grass and if you get in a high end development in the summer and drive it on the asphalt you may be looking at a big claim. We got some rubber marks on the curb one time and you would have thought the world was coming to an end. I could only imagine it we had left dimples in their road.

JonnyMc · Mar 15, 2011

Thanks for all the good insight. I guess one reason I was thinking about a SSL vs. CTL is that the initial cost is lower and I can get a 2 for 1 deal if I were to invest in a Loghering VTS set up like RustyIron mentioned. I guess I am trying to get the best out of both worlds to have a jack-of-all-trades machine. But I know that has a whole suite of additional risks and possible repairs associated with that.

Has anyone gotten a price on a Loghering track setup for a SSL?

Rustyiron · Mar 15, 2011

Has anyone gotten a price on a Loghering track setup for a SSL?[/QUOTE]

I have not set down with a dealer but I think that the VTS sys is 'bout $10,000. But I am seeing them coming up used. It seems that even though they are adjustable to fit a few different machines, the range of adj. is limited and they have several models. I have a big Gehl SSL with a 55" WB and would like to find some for that size used. But a normal (shorter) WB SSL should not be hard to find used. I think that the VTS sys. is a very well built and thought out unit and for a while I noticed that the die hard Cat guys that wanted a track machine, were getting them instead of the a Cat CTL with that $$$$ and complicated ASV/Cat undercarage. Check out Equip. Trader online and others for a used set.
As for damage running (to the machine) with OTT tracks, I have never had any, just don't use filled/solid tires, there needs to be some "give" when a stone or something gets between the tire & track. By the way I have a used set of Grouser OTT for sale for a 17.5X14 tire, they could be run for quite a while but will need new bushings. (they are rebuildable, just wrench work)

ralanb · Mar 19, 2011

I have a cat with logering steel ott tracks. i have had asv and will not go back to one since my cat. The steel tracks will scar a tree but like anything else, practice and pay attention. I can not complain. it is less maintnance and cheaper to repair. The bolts are what wear out and they are about 500-600 for all. Mine were just replaced at 1770 hrs. when im using my bucket, it thinks its a D3.