ATV or UTV-Help Me Decide

[Pug]

The folks on this forum helped me when I purchased my Mahindra tractor, and I'm back for advice on my next purchase. As background, I have a 60 acre farm of mostly wooded hills and valleys. I'm looking for a mid-range vehicle which would be split 50/50 between chores and hunting duty (very little if any, joyriding ), and have ridden but not owned one previously.

Here is my dilemma- I was set on buying a UTV such as the Rhino or new Polaris Ranger 400 since the above activities would be shared with my 12 YO son. It seemed like the perfect solution. Since then I have received mixed advice on whether these vehicles are 1) more or less stable than standard quad ATVs or 2) maneuverable enough to use for hunting in hilly woods terrain and around creekbeds. My number one priority is safety , and I've been told that side-by sides (execpt for the Polaris Razr) are actually less stable off trail than ATV's, and because of their weight more prone to cause injury if there is a mishap. I have also read the press on the Rhino model, and wondered how much creedence there is to the safety claims. I have no idea which way to go with this, so am hoping folks here will offer their fine advice!

Many thanks.

 

[HCJtractor]

I bought a Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI X2. This is like a regular ATV but with a one foot longer wheelbase. The seat back folds down and another back flips up so a second passenger rides in comfort behind you, even has grab-on handles and foot rests for the passenger. They make several versions of this. Another version is set up for touring with a more permanent and plush seat. The ride is excellent, and I frequently take my daughter, wife, 87 year old dad, and my hunting buddy along. (not at the same time!) I even have riden two adult passengers, although not as comfortably. Nice thing is it is still the width of a ATV, so it fits into my pickup truck bed, and it handles like a regular ATV, and is a blast to ride. It also has plenty of power, plenty of rack space, and is very comfortable over rough terrain. Other companies make a similar ATV. I think the main advantage is that it gives a true second passenger capacity, but does not require a trailer for transporting. During hunting season, mine stays in my truck bed in case I need it to recover a deer. And if you need more payload on your farm, the small ATV trailers from Northern work great for hauling tools, firewood, seed, fertilizer etc. Only disadvantage is a slightly langer turning radius than a normal ATV.

 

[soarkrebel1]

ATV's and UTV's can both be dangerous ....it depends mostly on how the operator uses it.
Personally between the two your looking at I would get the Rhino (if you can find one right now...I was looking and most dealers are out until sometime in 2010)
But for farm work the Kawasaki Mule's shouldn't be overlooked. They are slow and don't have that smooth ride but they are work horses around a place.
I use a 610 on a friends 600 acre place and sometimes have it with me. I was unimpressed at first but the little thing grew on me. It did just about everything I asked it to do.
It is by no means an ATV......meaning it will not go where an ATV goes. A Rhino will though.
A friend that hunts with me has one and I have grown to really like the Rhino. It is capable of going into most all places I do on a Honda Foreman. Width gets it sometimes.
My son the AG Ed major works for a Man that owns a 2200 farm in South Arkansas. He uses a 2006 Rhino that has been beat up beyond belief. Three Transmissions and countless other mishaps and still goes.
It has been through swamps,under water and rolled and still goes. Just think if you took care of one what it would do?
Now in retrospect the man changes his UTV's every few years and it's time. He is considering the Mules again just for the dependability. He says they won't go where the Rhino goes but they start every time and work.
He also considering the Honda Big Red.....ugly but dependable,reliable and comes from a company with a reputation of good products.
Did I mention it was ugly????? I looked at one of those ugly machines ....it appears that it might be more stable then some others. I just can't get over the ugly.......maybe it would grow on you ...............

I think UTV is the way to go for two people......more people ?? The transmule.....or Ranger Crew. Big but can carry lots of people and look fun for the family.

 

[farmboy12]

Based on your options, I would get the Ranger in a heartbeat. I have never owned one personally, but I have driven one or two, and from what I can build up they are THE BEST out there, and not just from the cheap, cheating videos they make every year. I haven't heard many complaints, and they were one of the original 2-3 UTVs out there and have been around for a while. But, the 400 is new, and the 450 is not, so any problems have most likely been recorded with the 450 Rhino. And the Rhino 450 has been proven to have a lot of power, someone posted a video of his pulling an 11,500 lb truck and trailer in the mountains.

But still, I think the Ranger is the way to go, especially if work is a major part of it.


Kyle

 

[soarkrebel1]

Based on your options, I would get the Ranger in a heartbeat. I have never owned one personally, but I have driven one or two, and from what I can build up they are THE BEST out there, and not just from the cheap, cheating videos they make every year. I haven't heard many complaints, and they were one of the original 2-3 UTVs out there and have been around for a while. But, the 400 is new, and the 450 is not, so any problems have most likely been recorded with the 450 Rhino. And the Rhino 450 has been proven to have a lot of power, someone posted a video of his pulling an 11,500 lb truck and trailer in the mountains.

But still, I think the Ranger is the way to go, especially if work is a major part of it.


Kyle

Most people that I know that own Rangers like them. The one thing for me would be the width. They are wide and might give some problems on some trails.
The Rhino is narrower and will go on those narrow trails between trees better then the Ranger.
The Rhino 450's are not hard to find it's the 700 FI's that are hard right now.
The 450's don't have the four wheel disc's all the way around and still use the disc on the rear drive shaft. They are not fuel injected and still have the old intake between the seats.
I understand that moving the intake from between the seats on the 700's made it a little quieter in the cab.
But if you want silence get a mule......on a 610 you can talk without yelling while riding and they say the transmule is even quieter......

 

[KentT]

I have a Rhino 450 and ride with two different ATV clubs on a regular basis so I've had a chance to compare it to all kinds/sizes of ATVs in all types of conditions. We often ride on tight, twisty trails through the trees here in New England, crossing streams, marshes and beaver ponds, and climbing steep rocky hills. In a nutshell, it will go anywhere it will fit between the trees or rocks. It will go anywhere the ATVs will, and some places that most of them won't try to take their ATVs -- like steep, rocky hills. Compared to an ATV in those types of situations, it has more weight (i.e. traction) and more low-end "grunt" to crawl up over things at slow speeds. In comparison, the ATVs scratch their way up an over, bouncing and spinning while I likely never spun a tire...

It is not as fast (which is a good thing and actually makes it safer, IMO), and not as maneuverable, so sometimes I do have to stop and back up to maneuver through a tight spot. The only places/routes that the ATVs have gone that I could not is across a couple of narrow "foot-log" type homemade bridges out on the trails -- I found and now take an alternate route around each, fording the streams. On a recent ride, a quad followed me and I ended up having to pull him out of the stream because he flipped it trying to climb the bank I'd just crawled up...

As far as safety -- personally, I think the UTV is much, much safer than ATV if you follow the MFR's safety recommendations. Unless I'm just tooling along at slow speed, sightseeing or working, I'm wearing a helmet. EVERY time I ride trails, I wear a helmet. I require anyone who rides with me on the trails to also wear one -- I have spares in two sizes so they have no excuse. I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt, and require them to do so, even if I'm only going 50-100 feet...

As far as the Rhino specifically. IMO, it is likely as safe as any of them out there, contrary to all the publicity. (The RZR has a lower center of gravity, but it is a MUCH faster vehicle and it's rollcage is really no better.)

There's several reason Rhinos are notorious:

1. They essentially "invented" the market niche of sport/utility, combining trail riding with work. Prior to that, essentially everything was a work machine -- even the Polaris Ranger which is trail capable on wider, more open trails.

2. They sold more UTVs than anyone else, being the first out there, and "learned by doing"... later machines such as the Teryx and Arctic Cat simply took Yamaha's basic ideas and offered enhancements or differences.

3. The lawyers targeted them specifically, because there were more accidents with them simply because there were more Rhinos out there...

Many/most of the Rhino accidents were caused by people not operating them as described in the owner/operator manual (such as sliding them through high-speed turns), under the influence of alcohol/drugs, or people not wearing the safety equipment (helmet & seatbelt). In response to these accidents, Yamaha has done two voluntary repairs, adding doors and then later wheel spacers and a free helmet, to make them more difficult to turn over, and to keep you inside the rollcage and protected better if you do...

Yamaha is likely no longer the market leader in terms of sales -- Polaris likely is with the different Rangers and RZRs. But, Yamaha has born the brunt of lawsuits in defending this market, and in large part, the costs of advertising to initially definie this market... They still offer a proven, very reliable and safe product.

Don't be scared off by the rumors and publicity seekers -- do your own research. IMO, with that youngster you'd both be safer inside a rollcage. I suggest you compare the Rhino 450, the new Ranger 400, and the new Mule 610XC. I love my 450 had have had ZERO problems with it.

HTH..

 

[KentT]

Most people that I know that own Rangers like them. The one thing for me would be the width. They are wide and might give some problems on some trails.
The Rhino is narrower and will go on those narrow trails between trees better then the Ranger.
The Rhino 450's are not hard to find it's the 700 FI's that are hard right now.
The 450's don't have the four wheel disc's all the way around and still use the disc on the rear drive shaft. They are not fuel injected and still have the old intake between the seats.
I understand that moving the intake from between the seats on the 700's made it a little quieter in the cab.
But if you want silence get a mule......on a 610 you can talk without yelling while riding and they say the transmule is even quieter......

You're correct -- the 450's still use the Rhino 660 running gear, except for engine and transmission. So their rear brake works on the rear driveshaft instead of at each wheel. (Note that Rhinos have a solid rear axle so this single brake disk brakes both rear wheels.). The 450 is geared MUCH lower than a 660, and actually pulls better, especially at lower RPMs than the 660. The newer 700fi is geared somewhere in between the 450 and 660...

The stock 450 is noisier than a 700 because the carb air intake is under your elbow, while newer design 700 moved the airbox up underneath the hood. I bought about $30 of shop-vac hose at Home Depot and routed my air intake up underneath the hood, and blocked off the one under my elbow, quietening it down significantly.

The 450 is about $2000 cheaper than a 700 -- and I chose to spend some of that savings on accesories like skidplates, winch, etc. For my use, I just couldn't justify the additional $2K.

 

[soarkrebel1]

KentT very good post!

 

[soarkrebel1]

You're correct -- the 450's still use the Rhino 660 running gear, except for engine and transmission. So their rear brake works on the rear driveshaft instead of at each wheel. (Note that Rhinos have a solid rear axle so this single brake disk brakes both rear wheels.). The 450 is geared MUCH lower than a 660, and actually pulls better, especially at lower RPMs than the 660. The newer 700fi is geared somewhere in between the 450 and 660...

The stock 450 is noisier than a 700 because the carb air intake is under your elbow, while newer design 700 moved the airbox up underneath the hood. I bought about $30 of shop-vac hose at Home Depot and routed my air intake up underneath the hood, and blocked off the one under my elbow, quietening it down significantly.

The 450 is about $2000 cheaper than a 700 -- and I chose to spend some of that savings on accesories like skidplates, winch, etc. For my use, I just couldn't justify the additional $2K.

I am in a debate between the 450 and 700 right now. And was ready to buy a 700 a few weeks ago but finding one that was priced right was hard.
I found many 450's for around $7800 in camo and have really thought about them even more......especially today in the rain at the farm wanting to get to one of stands and not wanting to get soaked.

Kent I am so gung ho I even have the shop manuals for all the Rhinos.......well I am a shop manual nut and have many others ..if I find them I save them.
I was leaning toward the 700's because I pull small trailers that I build for my ATV's. I go behind the timber cutters and cut the tops up for firewood. I really wanted that extra displacement for the pulling but have read that the 450's are just as or more capable of pulling loads.....

I had a sears yard cart that I wore out that had high speed tapered bearing axles that I installed....I rebuilt the thing......well really built another using the bottom axle portion of the old one....I put this thing through some rough stuff.......right now it looks brown with all the mud on it......lol
Here is a picture......

 

[KentT]

KentT very good post!

Thanks...

OBTW, as far as I know, Yamaha has won EVERY lawsuit that has come to trial so far. But, they've still coughed up mucho $$ on lawyers...