auto mechanics:invest in code reader?

   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader? #21  
Here's what I'd do at this point. Start over with the basics and ignore the codes unless the engine light is on when it's running. In fact disconnect the battery neg cable for a minute or so to clear them. While your at it, take that negative battery cable that you disconnected and touch the battery positive post with it. What this does is fully discharges the ECM capacitors. It's mostly used for newer ECM's, but still worth doing on the older models too. Just a habit I got into when diagnosing driveabilty problems. If your not sure what I mean by touching the negative cable to the positive post, don't do it...I don't want you to short anything out or cause more problems than you have.

Spark...make sure you have plenty of it at the plug itself. Best bet is to use a spark tester, like a "ST125" or similar. Most auto parts store carry them. Be sure to check every wire while the engine is running. Shut the engine off each time you move the tester to another wire so you don't get zapped. The old screwdriver trick will work but it's not 100% foolproof, the ST125 is!! Look inside the dist cap for moisture, corrosion or carbon tracks. Just because it's fairly new, doesn't mean it's not the problem. Same with the rotor, is the tab in the center clean?

Fuel...put a gauge on it to verify pressure. I think it should be about 9-13 psi, but I'm not certain. Check the manual if you have one. Another thing you can check is the injector(s) in the throttle body when the engine is running...you might need a helper to assist in all the start ups so you can stay under the hood and check everything. Is there a good cone shaped spray pattern with no drips? If it has 2 injectors, make sure both are spraying the same.

Air intake and exhaust...remove the air filter, sometimes it's easily overlooked. Use a light to see if it's clean, but removing it will prove if it's the problem or not. If you haven't checked the exhaust back pressure yet, at least make sure you can feel a moderate amount of pressure coming out the tail pipe with the engine at about 2K rpm. Connect a vacuum gauge to a vacuum line or use a 'T' and see what you have for a reading at a constant rpm(I know it might be tough to get a steady rpm), and be sure the needle is steady and not fluttering...I believe this engine is known for eating camshafts?? A compression test might be useful too. If you can narrow the problem to a specific cyl it's worth checking after verifying spark and fuel, but hold off for now.

Running rich or lean...since you don't have a scan tool to read engine data, do this. First create a large vacuum leak, the brake booster or PCV hose will work. If it runs better, the vehicle is running rich(pressure regulator maybe?). Next disconnect the Map sensor if you know where it is. Pull the vacuum line from it or remove the sensor from the intake and plug the vacuum leak off. If it runs better, the vehicle is running lean. You could also unplug the coolant sensor for the ECM, but using the Map sensor is more accurate.

Last but not least...ECM or connection problems. If any sensor was at fault, most likely the check engine would be on with the engine running and a code would set. Locate the ECM and while the engine is running, tap on the ECM with the palm of your hand. Does the engine run any different or act like it cuts out while tapping? Next would be ECM grounds. On the engine and/or trans there will be several ground connections. Make sure EVERYONE you can find(look thoroughly!) is clean and tight. If in doubt, remove each one, sand the terminal and its contact surface. I can't stress enough the importance of the ECM grounds!! It doesn't take much resistance to cause the ECM to do some strange things.

Sorry for the lengthy instructions, but if you follow all of it, you should be able to find the problem. There are a few other things you can do too, but I'll let you do this stuff first.

Good luck and post what you find.
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader?
  • Thread Starter
#22  
Well,ole slacky here,and finally got some time to work on it.Its easy to sit on my butt and ask what could be wrong,but now that ive applyed myself,i hit on it in 10 minutes.COMPRESSION TEST
#1 110 PSI
#2 0 PSI
#3 0 PSI
#4 110 psi

my conclusion,blown head gasket between 2 and 3 I just hired it done 4 years and 60000 miles ago.Guess its the nature of the beast.:( :( Its hard to rid yourself of a car ,when you just dumped money in it,so here we go again:(
ALAN
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader? #23  
Well that sucks. :( At least you know what it is now.
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader? #24  
If you are doing gasket again check head flatness, how much "meat" is left and have a light mill done for proper finish and use new head bolts and follow latest specs for torquing. Pressure testing is a great idea so you don't bolt down a new gasket with a cracked head. Those heads are famous for cracking around valve seats, although that wouldn't be the cause of gasket blown. New aftermarket castings are available, some machine shops and wrecking yards sell new castings with a valve job done. Check Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market if you need that.
Radiators on those vintage are notoriously under sized and can plug up a few tubes inside reducing already pathetic cooling. Consider new one if it isn't already. Flush coolant yearly for least corrosion.
Those were truly the "wonder years".
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader? #25  
That is one thing I have always tried to stress,check the basics first. You would not believe how many I have fixed this way that the local super wreanch blamed on the computer.
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
I got a friend who is one of the best mechanics i know coming by to help on it. Ther isnt thing that looks like rocket science here,so its all gonna come down to the condition of this head.When another outfit did the head 4 years ago they planed it down,and had to rebore the bearing journals:confused: so im not expecting my friend to find anything simple here.He did tell me he has a good source for good used ones,and for about 75 bucks he can get me a good quality used one ,rather than screw around with the old one,if its messed up.
My friend did the head on my 86 chevy spectrum.When you lost the timing in them the pistons would come up and smash the valves:confused: .What a stupid design huh? He completely re did the head,and i added another 100000 miles to it until the body rotted off from under me.The point is im very confident ill have a good running car,but whats next?
Bought all the new electrical stuff,will pick up a timing belt to throw in while apart. Gasket kit, We will check all the valves,seats ,seals and adjust CHECK for cracks ,.002 is THE MAX WARPAGE ON THE PLANE.[according to my book]Anything im forgetting anything
HEY TRACTOR LEGEND, Why the new head bolts if the old ones look good?
Yeah i agree i gotta remember to do what i can first and when all else fails check the code.
WILLKEEP YOU GUYS POSTED IF ANYONES INTERESTED
alan
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader? #27  
Stretch type head bolts are a throw away "torque to yield" design I believe on that year. You torque them to a certain torque and then turn them an additional 90 degrees (or whatever the book says) which stretches the bolt, so it's a one time use thing.
Anytime the torque spec says "turn an additional xx degrees" you know they are throw away stretch bolts.
Good idea to paint a dot on the bolts you torqued so you don't turn them twice when the phone rings.
FelPro has a bolt kit for them.
Be sure washers end up under the bolts on aluminum heads---i think they are "captive washers" on those meaning crimped/ staked in place on the bolt.
I would have the "good used head" checked just the same at a machinist and at least milled and pressure tested and valves vacuum checked.
I have found the words "good" and "used" seldom belong together...
last thing you want to do is trade problems and install a cracked one or one with bad valves to have you chasing probs.
 
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   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader?
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Thanks tractorlegend,
ive wrote it down and try to get some.Probably the last dude that did the head job didnt change them,thats why i didnt get many miles on it.
ALAN
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader?
  • Thread Starter
#29  
HEY GUYS,
Shes all up and running again,wow that takes some time!!No wonder its so costly at a garage.
My friend got me a darn nice head ,that was all set for a 2.2 that a guy didnt take...50 bucks!!! We took his 100 dollar straight edge[can you imagine that 100 dollars for a 3 ft peice of steel!!] and checked it ,it was sweet.We ripped mine down and put my cam,and roller rockers in it.My friend is so carefull its funny ,that everything is absolutely perfect:D of course it has to be right.The new 2 exhaust bolts and springs was a bear to install,but we got her done.I also put in a new timing belt,and watr pum,while it was out.well,anyway after 12-13 hours it purrs like a kitten,not a noise in it.It actually idles quietly,and the car always shook a little since it was new,not no more:) One thing that did happen,when i floored it on a hill ,it hitched and stalled:mad: It did this a couple times and then all of a sudden ,it didnt do it no more,and seemed to have 5 times more power.He explained the converter had probably filled with all the crap from blowing the gasket [gas,antifreeze,gasket] and it took a few miles for it all to come out.Well anyway i run it all afternoon and its like a new one.
Id like to ask you guys about the old head.When it was done before it was twisted and had to be milled,and the guy had it lined bored:confused: So when it was installed he used the head gasket and a spacer:confused: which looked like a second head gasket to shom it up i guess so the valves wouldnt hit.Is this a common practice ,or a rig job?Might it have lasted longer if it had had a different head back then? Both gasket and shim were completely disenegrated between 2 and 3 .We put that straight edge on the old one and it was also still perfectly flat,but i would not use it because i didnt like the two gasket thing so we put on the one from the 2.2.Was this 2 gasket thing a good idea in the first place ,or is it commonly done?
gasket kit,[included bolts and washers] water pump,timing belt,head and misc stuff ,plus a little pocket change for my friend,about 450 bucks.So in the last couple months ive dumped 900 to a grand in this beast,what an idiot:D If it last a year its a cheap payment i guess,im confident its good to go now:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HELP
ALAN
 
   / auto mechanics:invest in code reader? #30  
I'm sure for "somebody out there" the head shim worked or works...but like you I see them fail regularly- I think they are a bandaid. Most times when we tear into a rig with blown sandwiched together gasket/ shim installed it is apparent the holes dont match up very well between the shim and head gasket. I am not aware of any manufacturer endorsing the head gasket band aid shim. We end up recommending a new or replacement head.
I think for those seeking the most budget of jobs they can be a gamble at getting running for a while but the expansion/ contraction heat cycling will wipe them out sooner or later.
I'm all for bolting decent parts together to start with and avoiding unnecessary trouble.

The exhaust spring/bolt/nut kit was likely a bear to reassemble because the aftermarket Dormann kit or the like doesnt have the factory type nut with the welded on wing that makes it so you dont need a wrench on the top during reassembly

You are now an expert out standing in your field!
 

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