Buying Advice Avoiding a rip off

[Elixir]

Greetings -

Recently I've seen screamin' deals on near new tractors, Kubota primarily. I'm not referring to the obvious scams on ebay and such, but to units for sale locally. Often it appears the seller is liquidating everything

My concern is - how do I know the seller IS the owner and not the lessee, or that a lien is not outstanding against the tractor? To search UCC filings for liens appears next to useless if someone wishes to conceal a lien and leases aren't recorded there AFAIK.

How can you protect against someone selling something they don't own outright, especially if they are selling everything and moving out of state? I've consulted an attorney on this, no help there though.

Advise appreciated!

 

[LD1]

Sorry I don't know the answer to this question. Short of getting the serial # and calling a dealer, if that will help??? Or asking for proof that they've paid off all loans or copy of bill of sale????

I just wanted to reply to this so I can follow this post as I too am curious if there is any "real" way to tell, since they aren't titled like autos, quads, boats, etc.

 

[ChuckinNH]

I guess the best first step is just to ask to see evidence. I got a reciept when I bought my tractor from a dealer, and if there is a paid off note, there should be evidence. When I sold my first tractor private sale, I had no problem showing that evidence to the buyer.

 

[sweettractors]

Greetings -

Recently I've seen screamin' deals on near new tractors, Kubota primarily. I'm not referring to the obvious scams on ebay and such, but to units for sale locally. Often it appears the seller is liquidating everything

My concern is - how do I know the seller IS the owner and not the lessee, or that a lien is not outstanding against the tractor? To search UCC filings for liens appears next to useless if someone wishes to conceal a lien and leases aren't recorded there AFAIK.

How can you protect against someone selling something they don't own outright, especially if they are selling everything and moving out of state? I've consulted an attorney on this, no help there though.

Advise appreciated!

You should be able to go to the courthouse in the sellers home county and ask if there is a Lein on a ---Kubots tractor in the name of-----(owner) Our clerk will give that info over the phone, if not, it is public record, you can go look for yourself. If there is a lein on the piece, it does not necessarily have to have a serial #. Sometimes just a description. Always get the wife or siginifant others name as it could be in her name. Ken Sweet

 

[flusher]

Greetings -

Recently I've seen screamin' deals on near new tractors, Kubota primarily. I'm not referring to the obvious scams on ebay and such, but to units for sale locally. Often it appears the seller is liquidating everything

My concern is - how do I know the seller IS the owner and not the lessee, or that a lien is not outstanding against the tractor? To search UCC filings for liens appears next to useless if someone wishes to conceal a lien and leases aren't recorded there AFAIK.

How can you protect against someone selling something they don't own outright, especially if they are selling everything and moving out of state? I've consulted an attorney on this, no help there though.

Advise appreciated!

Here's the Bill of Sale form I use to buy old tractors and implements--stuff that's not being financed by the Seller

BILL OF SALE

I,_______________________________________ (Seller), in the County of_________________, State of________, in consideration of ____________________________________________Dollars, ($__________), to be paid by _Flusher (Buyer), the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, do hereby grant, sell, transfer and deliver unto Flusher (Buyer) the following:

[Description] _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________To have and to hold the same to Buyer and his heirs, executors, administrators, trustees, successors and assign, to their use forever.And I hereby covenant with the Buyer that I am the lawful owner of said goods; That they are free from all encumbrances; That I have good right to sell the same as aforesaid; And that I will warrant and defend the same against the lawful claims and demands of all persons.Seller agrees to safeguard the property described above until Buyer can arrange for transportation. Buyer agrees to transport the property within _____ days from the date of this transaction.In witness, whereof, I_____________________________________ (Seller), hereunto set my hand, this ___day _____________ 20__.

CA Driver痴 License #
____________________ ______________________
Seller Buyer

If the Seller balks at signing, I walk. I figure this is the minimum protection I can reasonably get from the Seller.

If the tractor is being financed, you'll have to dig deeper--contact the lender and get the relevant info before you get involved with the purchase.

 

[Monster5601]

Take the serial number to your local law enforcement and asked them to check if the serial number is listed as stolen. Long shot, but may be Kubota will tell you the dealer that the tractor went too and you could check with that dealer.

If it is a scam, any documentation provided by the seller can not be trusted.

 

[brin]

I know a lady that bought a one year old Taho SUV and got a good deal..she gave $20K for it and got a bill of sale and a title...She went and got tags for it at the county, About a month later the Police were at her door and it turns out the vin # plate on the SUV was from a totaled one in a junk yard and the one she bought had been stolen. She lost the SUV and the $20K but was not prosecuted since she had a bill of sale, title and had gotten plates for it...so there was not intent or conciousness of guilt on her part...She was sick to lose the money and the SUV. Seems she did everything right and still lost.

 

[Stubee]

That is a good question. I have a friend in NW Ontario who bought a large Deere loader from a long-established local used implement dealer/service shop. About a year later it was confiscated from my friend. It had been stolen in Minnesota and somehow found it's way across the border to a reputable sales outfit. The implement dealer made everything straight, but somehow this one slipped by them and by all accounts, they are straight.

 

[Mike Costello]

I know a lady that bought a one year old Taho SUV and got a good deal..she gave $20K for it and got a bill of sale and a title...She went and got tags for it at the county, About a month later the Police were at her door and it turns out the vin # plate on the SUV was from a totaled one in a junk yard and the one she bought had been stolen. She lost the SUV and the $20K but was not prosecuted since she had a bill of sale, title and had gotten plates for it...so there was not intent or conciousness of guilt on her part...She was sick to lose the money and the SUV. Seems she did everything right and still lost.

I saw a story about this on the internet. It's called "cloning" and it is becoming a problem. Thieves simply replace the stolen vehicle's VIN with another boneyard number of an identical vehicle right down to the paint color. Everything seems OK until the law catches up to the scheme usually about a year later. I guess taking a hard look at the VIN for possible tampering is now part of the inspection process. Mike.

 

[777777]

In Ottawa Ontario, the cops ended up buying a stolen car. Not quite sure all the details but was on the news.

Same deal, VIN off a wreck and put in a new stolen car.

Few red faces there.

With cars, if written off, they are supposed to be branded as write off.

Really don't thinkl there is any easy way with tractors\equipment.

Later