Backhoe for JD

jcmseven · May 28, 2006

Fellow Posters,

I try to keep up to speed on all things green, but I have a question about something I might should know, but do not. I know, I know, I should not ask this question NOW, but I must. I have thought transiently about a backhoe for my tractor (3720). I never thought I would use one much and have never owned one for this reason, but when I started looking around I saw a number of fairly large and continuing projects for which I could use one. It seems the 448 BH is the better model, but I might be able to look more at a 447 if the difference is not large and it is less expensive. I do not have the extra hydraulics (did not think about this when I ordered my tractor) but I suspect my dealer would not kill me on the price of an installation. My big questions are these: I would not want to lose the use of my rear BB so I would want to be able to install and remove the BH quickly; is this possible and how does it mount, frame, three point anchor??? Second, do these things really work well or are they mainly for lighter duty work (i.e., playing)? Finally, cost, how much should I expect to pay for one of the pups if I decided on one? I am familiar with the retail prices. I would be interested to hear from those that have and use them for feedback. I have in no way decided yet, but I grow weary of renting when I need a BH, as they are pricey rentals, always checked out, have a hydraulic leak or are available at times when I am working my "day job".

John M

jcmseven · May 28, 2006

Fellow Posters,

I try to keep up to speed on all things green, but I have a question about something I might should know, but do not. I know, I know, I should not ask this question NOW, but I must. I have thought transiently about a backhoe for my tractor (3720). I never thought I would use one much and have never owned one for this reason, but when I started looking around I saw a number of fairly large and continuing projects for which I could use one. It seems the 448 BH is the better model, but I might be able to look more at a 447 if the difference is not large and it is less expensive. I do not have the extra hydraulics (did not think about this when I ordered my tractor) but I suspect my dealer would not kill me on the price of an installation. My big questions are these: I would not want to lose the use of my rear BB so I would want to be able to install and remove the BH quickly; is this possible and how does it mount, frame, three point anchor??? Second, do these things really work well or are they mainly for lighter duty work (i.e., playing)? Finally, cost, how much should I expect to pay for one of the pups if I decided on one? I am familiar with the retail prices. I would be interested to hear from those that have and use them for feedback. I have in no way decided yet, but I grow weary of renting when I need a BH, as they are pricey rentals, always checked out, have a hydraulic leak or are available at times when I am working my "day job".

John M

_M_ · May 29, 2006

I'll try to answer a few of your questions. I ordered my 448 with the tractor, so I don't have much to say about what it would cost by itself.

Mounting: Let's start with the hoe mounted on the tractor and ready for use. I can get the hoe detached (sitting on the ground by itself) and disconnected (hydraulics disconnected and rock shaft reconnected) in about 2-3 minutes. This part is very fast and easy. However, if I now want to attach a 3ph implement, I will have to mount the trailing link arms and top link (because they have to be removed when attaching the hoe since it mounts to a subframe). This 3ph step takes me less than 10 minutes (tool wise it involves a pair of bolts and nuts). I've done it about 5 times. To switch from 3ph mode back to hoe, just reverse the above process (take of trailing link arms and top link, then backup to hoe, lift it with rock shaft arms, pin it in place, attach hoses). My take on mounting is that the added hassle of taking off the 3ph is absolutely worth the solid connection between the hoe and tractor. Besides, I don't put the hoe on that often compared to using 3ph implements.

447 or 448?: As I recall, the price difference between the two was small enough that that alone made me chose the more capable model. Beyond that, these are small hoes compared to a heavy TLB. Every bit of additional power you get helps. I'm not saying the 447 is weak and wouldn't work out great for some chores, but that at least for me, the extra oomph of the 448 let's me do things faster and with less repositioning.

Capabilities: While these hoes are not nearly as powerful as what you'd get with a full sized TLB, I find that, in my case the 488, is absolutely adequate and preferable to renting for everything I've done so far and can think of doing. Keep in mind, my projects don't have significant deadlines. The slowest thing I've done is dig out oak stumps. They are quite stout and heavy. Bigger equipment would be a lot faster, but with the 448 I can tackle several oak stumps in a morning, afternoon, or whenever I want (and not worry about cost, availability, and delivery/pickup issues). That's worth way more to me for what I'm doing then renting something that can pluck them out. I've also worked on ditches, side cuts, moved rocks, and unloaded heavy items from trailers that the loader couldn't reach. Down the road I foresee burying a 500 gal. propane tank and doing trench work among other things. It's quite fun too. If you run out of things to do with it, you can sell it and should easily be ahead of where you'd be if you were a renter. Bottom line: It works very well for what it is and I haven't regretted getting it for even an instant. I find there are many things I can do because I have it that I wouldn't have thought about if I didn't. Lastly, as many others have said before, operator technique plays a significant part in what a hoe can do. I've clearly noticed this as I've improved my own skill since first getting it.

Power Beyond: Not just for back hoes. I also use mine for a 3PH wood splitter. It's a great setup for me.

Room for improvement: I have the standard 12" bucket. The bucket size is right for my tasks, but the teeth (which peen onto the shanks) are weak. I replaced all three within an hour of each other after the first 15 hours on the hoe. I have hit and worked on some rocks and roots, but not so that I'd expect to have gone through teeth that quickly. If the replacements (which are a different brand) don't hold up, I may consider a different bucket or modifying mine to using pins or something. It would also be nice if Deere offered a thumb (even a manual one). I saw a dealer install a hydraulic thumb made by Amulet on a 448. They made a custom control pedal for the thumb (right foot) and it looked like a nice setup.

Hope this helps your decision.

_M_ · May 29, 2006

I'll try to answer a few of your questions. I ordered my 448 with the tractor, so I don't have much to say about what it would cost by itself.

Mounting: Let's start with the hoe mounted on the tractor and ready for use. I can get the hoe detached (sitting on the ground by itself) and disconnected (hydraulics disconnected and rock shaft reconnected) in about 2-3 minutes. This part is very fast and easy. However, if I now want to attach a 3ph implement, I will have to mount the trailing link arms and top link (because they have to be removed when attaching the hoe since it mounts to a subframe). This 3ph step takes me less than 10 minutes (tool wise it involves a pair of bolts and nuts). I've done it about 5 times. To switch from 3ph mode back to hoe, just reverse the above process (take of trailing link arms and top link, then backup to hoe, lift it with rock shaft arms, pin it in place, attach hoses). My take on mounting is that the added hassle of taking off the 3ph is absolutely worth the solid connection between the hoe and tractor. Besides, I don't put the hoe on that often compared to using 3ph implements.

447 or 448?: As I recall, the price difference between the two was small enough that that alone made me chose the more capable model. Beyond that, these are small hoes compared to a heavy TLB. Every bit of additional power you get helps. I'm not saying the 447 is weak and wouldn't work out great for some chores, but that at least for me, the extra oomph of the 448 let's me do things faster and with less repositioning.

Capabilities: While these hoes are not nearly as powerful as what you'd get with a full sized TLB, I find that, in my case the 488, is absolutely adequate and preferable to renting for everything I've done so far and can think of doing. Keep in mind, my projects don't have significant deadlines. The slowest thing I've done is dig out oak stumps. They are quite stout and heavy. Bigger equipment would be a lot faster, but with the 448 I can tackle several oak stumps in a morning, afternoon, or whenever I want (and not worry about cost, availability, and delivery/pickup issues). That's worth way more to me for what I'm doing then renting something that can pluck them out. I've also worked on ditches, side cuts, moved rocks, and unloaded heavy items from trailers that the loader couldn't reach. Down the road I foresee burying a 500 gal. propane tank and doing trench work among other things. It's quite fun too. If you run out of things to do with it, you can sell it and should easily be ahead of where you'd be if you were a renter. Bottom line: It works very well for what it is and I haven't regretted getting it for even an instant. I find there are many things I can do because I have it that I wouldn't have thought about if I didn't. Lastly, as many others have said before, operator technique plays a significant part in what a hoe can do. I've clearly noticed this as I've improved my own skill since first getting it.

Power Beyond: Not just for back hoes. I also use mine for a 3PH wood splitter. It's a great setup for me.

Room for improvement: I have the standard 12" bucket. The bucket size is right for my tasks, but the teeth (which peen onto the shanks) are weak. I replaced all three within an hour of each other after the first 15 hours on the hoe. I have hit and worked on some rocks and roots, but not so that I'd expect to have gone through teeth that quickly. If the replacements (which are a different brand) don't hold up, I may consider a different bucket or modifying mine to using pins or something. It would also be nice if Deere offered a thumb (even a manual one). I saw a dealer install a hydraulic thumb made by Amulet on a 448. They made a custom control pedal for the thumb (right foot) and it looked like a nice setup.

Hope this helps your decision.

Haoleguy · May 29, 2006

Several good questions and points to be made around this topic some are financial in nature. Like many others I added a BH to my original purchase which is the 49 on a JD5325. The attachment is undercarriage which means you lose ground clearance but is strongly in place. I can pop stumps and dig out 4ft circumference rocks pretty well. The BHs you are looking at will do the same but slightly smaller on the rocks. If you need to grab objects you might consider the thumb option on your backhoe. With that being said, from my experience thus far with the tasks at hand(stumps, rocks, rock wall making, trenching, etc) a small excavator in my stable, from extra financial freedom, would be more efficient and extend the working envelope. I'm pleased with my backhoe but there are compromises. A tractor with a loader and backhoe are the equivalent to the versatile Swiss knife.

Haoleguy · May 29, 2006

Several good questions and points to be made around this topic some are financial in nature. Like many others I added a BH to my original purchase which is the 49 on a JD5325. The attachment is undercarriage which means you lose ground clearance but is strongly in place. I can pop stumps and dig out 4ft circumference rocks pretty well. The BHs you are looking at will do the same but slightly smaller on the rocks. If you need to grab objects you might consider the thumb option on your backhoe. With that being said, from my experience thus far with the tasks at hand(stumps, rocks, rock wall making, trenching, etc) a small excavator in my stable, from extra financial freedom, would be more efficient and extend the working envelope. I'm pleased with my backhoe but there are compromises. A tractor with a loader and backhoe are the equivalent to the versatile Swiss knife.

BloomingtonMike · May 29, 2006

Think of additional garage space required and the height of the arm as well. This hoe could become your ballast so unless you are grading I doubt you will remove it.

I have dibs when you sell it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BloomingtonMike · May 29, 2006

Think of additional garage space required and the height of the arm as well. This hoe could become your ballast so unless you are grading I doubt you will remove it.

I have dibs when you sell it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jeffinsgf · May 29, 2006

( Think of additional garage space required and the height of the arm as well. This hoe could become your ballast so unless you are grading I doubt you will remove it.

I have dibs when you sell it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

I disagree with Mike on this. The attachment and removal of the backhoe is so easy, that I only have it on when I am using it. Mine is a 48 hoe on a 4410 tractor, but the system is the same, or the new version might be even easier.

Just go for it. You won't believe how many projects you come up with for it once it is in the barn.

jeffinsgf · May 29, 2006

( Think of additional garage space required and the height of the arm as well. This hoe could become your ballast so unless you are grading I doubt you will remove it.

I have dibs when you sell it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

I disagree with Mike on this. The attachment and removal of the backhoe is so easy, that I only have it on when I am using it. Mine is a 48 hoe on a 4410 tractor, but the system is the same, or the new version might be even easier.

Just go for it. You won't believe how many projects you come up with for it once it is in the barn.