Backhoe Backhoe Sizing

CuLayTur · May 16, 2004

I'm starting to look at backhoe's for my 3054. From looking at the Little Tractor site, they will sell a Rhino 85 for this size tractor. But, the Kioti home page only lists a 75 for the max that this tractor can handle. Now I'm stuck, would like to get the biggest toy... I mean tool, that this tractor can handle.

Has anybody installed a 8.5' or 9.5 foot hoe on one of these?

Thanks,
Curt

Jim_in_Omaha · May 16, 2004

I have a 3054 and being the type to go the hard but cheap route I found a used Gulin (Chinese) backhoe and made a subframe for it. From my research this hoe is very heavy. Somewhere near 1200lbs and my subframe is probably around 150lbs. From the specs I found mine should dig around 7' deep but I really only will need to go around 5' to get below frost line here. I was told it is the closest to the current Gulin LW7 specs. It has a 16" wide bucket and its cylinders are huge. Its big but my tractor 'seems' to handles it very well. I have a Bulher loader.

Yesterday I tried it out for the first time and I dug a 4' hole in very little time. Thought about what could be buried in there then filled it back up. I had looked at Kioti backhoes, and a few of the well known American BH's. I then had considered building a hoe from either Cadplans or CDP. But I don't have the time and the cost for those kit build units would be more than what I have in this thing because of the outragous price increase in steel.

The picture kind of makes the hoe look short and fat. But when extended it does goe way out there. I thought I would mention this simply because of the weight of mine.

thx
Jim

wart · May 16, 2004

I have a rhino 7.5ft. on a LB1914 and have over a 100 hours of digging with backhoe without a problem. a couple of times ive put 250lbs in the loader bucket to lift 30 inch pine stumps out of the hole. It is also very sandy where i live so its easy digging. The 3054 is a 1000lbs heavier i think it would handle 85. You have to use your head when digging you can hang the tractor strait out in the air with the backhoe it puts alot of stress on the subframe WART

KiotiJohn · May 18, 2004

My only concern about going with a larger than recommended BH is that if you break something, Kioti is not going to be amenable to honoring warranty. Supposedly a lot of research goes into finding out how much stress these tractors can take, and I prefer to abide with the engineer's recommendations, not mine. Woods makes a great BH and I believe they have one for that model. Check with a Woods dealer to see if it's comparable, or find a Rhino 75 is my advice. John

CuLayTur · May 19, 2004

I've looked at the Koyker, Landspride (same as Koyker), Bush Hog, Rhino, Bradco and the Kioti... All of the manufactures, except for Kioti make a backhoe in the 8.5' range that they say will work with a 30 - 50hp tractor... That's what has me stumped... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

From talking to the dealer today, the weight of the 7.5 vs the 8.5 is only about 70 lbs heavier in shipping weight compared to other models. All other models have alot heavier specs in the lifting department, and they still say its rated for the same HP as a 3054... I know they have no stake in the warranty of my tractor, just want to sell THEIR equipment.

The Kioti difference from the 7.5 vs the 8.5, other that the obvious length is the digging force, the 7.5 is 2675 lbs verses the 8.5 rated at 3550 lbs and the dipperstick digging force is about 100 lbs difference... How much of a difference will that make in stress?

Thanks
Curt

KiotiJohn · May 19, 2004

( The Kioti difference from the 7.5 vs the 8.5, other that the obvious length is the digging force, the 7.5 is 2675 lbs verses the 8.5 rated at 3550 lbs and the dipperstick digging force is about 100 lbs difference... How much of a difference will that make in stress? )
I'm not an engineer, but I would think it would be considerable with that amount of difference. Do you think that if it were OK to do that Kioti would want to sell a more expensive, larger BH for you to use? Or are they just not interested in selling you a larger BH that would work on that tractor? I think the answer is obvious, they don't think you should use a larger BH on that tractor. I may be wrong, but I sure wouldn't want to find out the hard way with a broken tractor and no warranty to back it up. Having used my little 6.5 a good bit now, I realize there are a LOT of stressors being placed on the BH, subframe and tractor in general. I wouldn't think of trying to go larger on my CK20. Kioti doesn't even recommend that 8.5 BH for the DK35, they do starting at the DK40. Do you really NEED the extra BH length? If so, I'd suggest you get a tractor that is rated for the BH you need. I understand the confusion, but I don't believe I'd trust that someone trying to sell you something is going to be all that objective about the pressure your tractor will receive. John

One thing I wasn't thinking about before is that Kioti may be judging the BH for that tractor by the tractor's hydraulics. In order to run the larger BH efficiently, the hydraulics would require more capacity. The LK3054XS has overall, 10gpm, the DK40 has 12.5. that's actually a good bit of difference in power potential. That may be the reason as you would generally be operating the BH through the tractor's hydraulics. Now, if you were to run a PTO hydraulic pump instead, there may be no problem using the larger hoe. I'd contact Kioti at customer_support@kiotitractor.com and request an opinon on using the larger BH with a PTO pump and if that's possible, and would the warranty cover it. John

Jim_in_Omaha · May 19, 2004

I've been thinking about this. I know from my installation of the backhoe I have that the tractor is capable of handling the weight of a heavy hoe as far as attaching it and moving it around. But when I used it for the first time it was like a huge gorilla on the back of the 3054. I could lift the rear of the tractor up with the main boom. And I'm only running off the aux hydraulic ports right now. I thought maybe it is the weight of the tractor that they may be concerned about because the 40 is around 800+ more pounds (without loader). But it is a physically bigger tractor, wider, and longer.

Another thing might be marketing. They know that the 2385 could work on the 3054 but they need that for the bigger tractors as far a sales go. If your out of warranty you could go with anything you want. Which mine was out of warranty because Kioti did not have transferable warranties at that time according to the web site.

I would think that with either one you could be digging a hole and manage to drag your tractor right down into it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CuLayTur · May 19, 2004

Just talked to the dealer. The Kioti dealer said the Kioti 8.5 backhoe will not void the warranty if we install it on the 3054. Now it's a matter if I trust them enough to standby it..

Curt

KiotiJohn · May 21, 2004

( Just talked to the dealer. The Kioti dealer said the Kioti 8.5 backhoe will not void the warranty if we install it on the 3054. Now it's a matter if I trust them enough to standby it..)
No attempt to demean any dealer, but Curt, please get that in writing from Kioti corporate. E-mail Jeanette@kiotitractor.com and ask her to research this and e-mail you an answer. Since their site does not recommend that BH for that tractor, they could easily void the warranty no matter what the dealer says. Unless it's in writing, you're on your own. The dealer said that putting that BH on that tractor would not void the warranty. He did not say that if that tractor is damaged because that BH is on it that the warranty would be honored. Their is power in what's not said. John

CuLayTur · Jun 11, 2004

Finally got a note back from Kioti on the 8.5 ft backhoe on the LK 3054. I have it in writing from the corporate offices that it will NOT void any warranty that I have remaining on the 'ol girl.

Now to just what til the subframe arrives on the next truck..

Curt