Battery doesn't charge

Richard · Nov 25, 2017

I'm finally (after something like 15 years) getting annoyed!

I have a JCB-1550B backhoe/loader. I have a voice in the back of my head that says things from England don't have great electronics.... but then, maybe I'm getting it confused with some things of old.

None the less... I've had the alternator out to the shop and it's working 100%. I also understand (but can't swear) that it has a built in regulator.

In fairness to my poor battery, the machine likely doesn't get used enough to keep the battery charged so that alone might be the culpret.

If the alternator is 100% as stated by the service shop and the regulator is internal..... where else might I look and what else might I look at to see if something is amiss?

It really gets old dragging a 100' extension cord and battery charger out to jump it off, especially in winter.

Second question.... I have thought about getting a solar battery charger (maintainer??) What would I want to get for a battery like this? Is a solar charger the same as a maintainer?

Wouldn't be so bad if I could park machine next to house.... and if I weren't married....probably would.... I guess most of us know how that story ends

Phillip w · Nov 25, 2017

Well if your alternator and regulator are good, I think it boils down to only a couple other issues. How old is your battery and will it hold a charge? If you don't use a battery regularly it is hard on the battery and can ruin a battery. Another culprit that can cause charging issues is loose and or dirty connectiins. I got an old John Deere 730 with (4) 6 volt batteries in it. Seems like I'm always dealing with a loose or dirty connection. The only other thing I know that can cause the alternator no to charge is a loose belt. Beyond that I'm running loe on ideas. If you want a cheap way to keep your battery maintained, my wife bought me a little Stanley electronic battery charger. She played like 30 dollars for it and I thought the thing was a joke. Truth is it works pretty well. If you set it on 2 amp maintenance, some electronic whizzo thing kicks it on and off so you can leave it plugged till the next time you need the tractor. It is a good little charger and will keep your battery maintained between uses. Hope this helps.

Clint S · Nov 25, 2017

Have you verified the voltage at the alt and battery. That is where I would start. Could be the excite circuit on the alt.

Richard · Nov 25, 2017

The machine has had a lifetime (in my ownership) of eating batteries. Again, I'm willing to go with "you simply don't use it enough to keep the battery charged and you're killing them"

I have a vague memory that years (and years) ago, I could disconnect the battery while the machine was running and the lights would still work....just like on a car. Today however, if I were to try it, the lights die the moment the battery is disconnected.

I have another voice in the back of my head that says there is some (negative) reason why I shouldn't be removing the battery like that.... perhaps that act alone might pop something in the alternator/regulator (??)

Any kind of battery charger/maintainer has to be solar... it gets old dragging the cord out that far and at times, the cord is in use elsewhere making it more of an annoyance.

Regarding checking voltage at the battery.... I did that once (2-3 years ago) and today, frankly have no memory of what I found. I was trying to compare the volts being created at the alternator verses what was showing at the battery if I recall.... but again, it's been a while.

Truth be told, for my period of ownership, I've just suffered and "maintained" the unit (backhoe) as though the alternator did NOT charge. I would periodically pull up to house to put on trickle charge over weekend.

I've loosened the negative connection so I can kill any idle discharge while not being used.

So my process is... put negative terminal on, crank over. If there is a decent charge in the battery, the motor will literally JUMP to start. Sounds like it is starting in around 3/4 of a crank revolution (don't know if that's true, just sounds like it) It really is a VERY quick starter when battery is good.

The other extreme I've had is the unit parked far enough from house where my extension cord won't reach.... temp is 2 degrees, battery dead and I'm having to use my car to jump start.... and it takes 30/45 minutes connected to the car to get enough charge stored to crank hard enough to start. It's usually never THAT bad but it's happened on severely cold days.

txdon · Nov 25, 2017

You need this tool
Amazon.com: ANCEL BA1�1 Professional 12V 1��-2�� CCA 22�AH Automotive Load Battery Tester Digital Analyzer Bad Cell Test Tool for Car / Boat / Motorcycle and More (Red): Automotive
to make sure your battery and charging system are OK.
Replace anything the analyzer says to replace and then get a solar battery charger.

It's very easy, even i did it, it take the guess work out of it.

Phillip w · Nov 25, 2017

Well, where to start? The stuff built back in say the 1970's, it was a pretty good way to check an alternator by pulling off the battery cable. Today with everything getting more and more electronical, I'd be skeptical about pulling a battery cable while it is running. You may burn the diodes ( little electronic whizzos) out of the alternator. If you are having trouble jump starting it with you car, that indicates more of a battery problem and it would probably be worse when it is cold. You might take the battery out and take it to an auto parts store (like napa) and have the load test it. The can get to the bottom of battery issues pretty quick. As far as voltages, (Don't hold me to this but) I think a 12 volt battery should test about 12.9 - 13.2 volts. I think an alternator should put out about 14 volts.

txdon · Nov 26, 2017

Phillip w said:
Well, where to start? The stuff built back in say the 1970's, it was a pretty good way to check an alternator by pulling off the battery cable. Today with everything getting more and more electronical, I'd be skeptical about pulling a battery cable while it is running. You may burn the diodes ( little electronic whizzos) out of the alternator. If you are having trouble jump starting it with you car, that indicates more of a battery problem and it would probably be worse when it is cold. You might take the battery out and take it to an auto parts store (like napa) and have the load test it. The can get to the bottom of battery issues pretty quick. As far as voltages, (Don't hold me to this but) I think a 12 volt battery should test about 12.9 - 13.2 volts. I think an alternator should put out about 14 volts.

You are right. The battery tester I mentioned above test the load capacity of the battery. My Dad's tractor charged up fine to 12.9 v but failed the load test. That is why it would not start. It also detected that the battery in my wife car had lost about 40% of it's cold cranking power and should also be replaced before she got stranded. It also showed the battery in my tractor and truck was good but my Mom's battery in her truck which she never drives just needed recharging.

It also test the alternator while the tractor is running and connected to the battery.

Richard · Nov 26, 2017

Thank you for the tester idea... just ordered one.

I'm pretty sure I'll need a new battery too.... I'll hobble along until it verifies it for me. Maybe then with a new battery it can point out something else at issue.

John_Mc · Nov 26, 2017

It does sound like you have a weak battery. Load testing may tell you if it's worth trying to salvage it or not. From your description, I suspect that lack of use is killing your batteries. All lead acid batteries will self-discharge over time, even if they are not connected to anything. They also don't like to be stored in a partially discharged state. It causes sulfation, which can increase the self-discharge rate, and in extreme cases short out one or more cells in the battery. Sometimes you can bring back a battery that suffers from sulfation by connecting it to a charger that has a desulfation circuit - this can take a long time (weeks) if it is badly sulfated.

I have a friend who was in the same situation as you: tractor stored in a remote area without power and infrequently used. He bought the BatteryMinder SCC-015, a solar maintainer with a desulfation feature which comes with it's own 15 watt solar panel. It's only a little over 1 Amp output, so if you are waiting for it to charge a dead battery, you'll need a lot of patience. However, the real point of one of these is to keep a battery from discharging and deteriorating. If you leave it hooked up when not in use and the panel is our where the sun can get to it, you should have good results. He's been very happy with the performance. He's now going on 6 years without replacing the battery or needing a jump start.

Note: The link above is to Northern Tool. They also carry the BatteryMinder SCC005, which has a 5 watt solar panel. It's a bit cheaper, but he figured he'd rather have the 1+amps than one that was less than half an amp. They also sell a higher powered unit (the SCC180) that can handle up to a 180 Watt solar panel, but you have to supply your own solar panel. Not having a spare solar panel lying around (and wanting a system that was more easily portable than lugging around a 180 watt panel), he passed on that one.

All of the above linked items go on sale from time to time, and you can get some better deala & free shipping if you are a member of the Northern Tool Advantage program.

KWentling · Nov 26, 2017

These guys have pretty well got it covered. One more thing you can check for, is a discharge when everything is off. Disconnect the ground cable and put a test light between it and a ground surface. If it lights, something is drawing current. A diode in an alternator can be bad and the alternator will still charge (at a lower capacity) but when it's off it will slowly drain the battery back through the bad diode.