BCS 850 and 730 PTO engage issues

kavisiegel · Oct 19, 2015

Hey everyone!

Unfortunately I had both my BCS tractors fail me this weekend, I'm a bit bummed about that but hopefully it's not a tough fix!

I just picked up the 850 a few weeks ago, it had a stuck clutch and the engine had varnished carb syndrome. Took care of those things and it's running great, drove it out to the back and went to hook up the power sweeper aaaannnd... The PTO just wouldn't engage. The lever moves freely back and forth, no popping into gear though. There seems to be some interference with the reverse mechanism, when I pull the PTO handle back it ends up putting the tractor into reverse. I don't quite know how an 850 should look down there, but I almost suspect my PTO lever issue is related to the reverse PTO lockout? Or maybe, and I hope this isn't the case, there's some gears absolutely totally stripped in there. I tried with the handles forward, the handles back, in forward and reverse.. I tinkered with the reverse lever a little, just no luck. I found this PDF http://www.bcsamerica.com/uploads/2013/02/850.pdf and I think I have an idea. There must be something funny with the PTO engagement pin, lever, or shoe. There's orange goop on the side so I'm assuming somebody's been inside there before. Hopefully one of y'all might know a thing or two more than I about it, but it looks like my next step there is open it right back up. I suspect the shoe is broken and since there's nothing mechanical in there to stop the lever anymore, I'm able to pull it far enough to hit the reverse lever. Any tips or tricks on opening this thing up?

Anyways, since I couldn't figure that out after an hour, I brought the 730 around. I started with the sweeper in the air to get the clutch spinning, the thing started moving forward, and when I put the sweeper on the ground it just stopped spinning. Wheels were rolling uphill, but the implement stopped spinning. I heard a faint chirping sound, so I stopped it immediately. I'm not sure if this could be the clutch here, the chirping sound would be accurate, but the thing that bothered me was the wheels still drove. And that implement doesn't take THAT much torque. Maybe it is the clutch and it kept moving forward with whatever momentum it had? I guess I'll have to check the clutch first on it. Is this a behavior anyone else has heard of?

Thanks for any help before I find some time to rip into it!

Ford850 · Oct 20, 2015

Here are a couple videos from Joel at Earth Tools that might help verify your reverser and PTO lockout are adjusted properly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fn8CjvS9TE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG8yP41e_CA

wstr75 · Oct 20, 2015

The issue with the 730 sounds like what happened with my 737 last spring. The problem was the clutch lining was worn out. I sent the clutch to Earth Tools for re-building (re-lining the clutch's friction material). The 737 was like a new tractor after re-installing the rebuilt clutch.

kavisiegel · Oct 23, 2015

I took both apart last night. I seem to have been dead-on about the 850: the shoe is sheared in half. I'm afraid that the replacement shoe's just going to shear in half as well if the gear is somehow stuck in place, so I'm going to grab a gear puller and see how tight it is. I can't get it off by hand. I don't know how it can seize that bad in an oil bath, but I'm sure there's a way. I'll be ordering some parts soon.

The 730 continues to be a mystery. The clutch has at least 1/4" left on it (the inner cone is almost even with the outer cone, where Joel from Earth Tools in one of his videos states that the inner cone can extend 1/4" or so outside of the outer cone) I'm starting to think the implement may have some stripped gears somehow? I'll try and hook the wood chipper up to the 730 this evening and see if it spins up. The flywheel on that should be comparable to the load of the sweeper. If it spins with no slipping, then I guess I take apart the sweeper next?

Photos, of course:

and the clutch on the 730:

kavisiegel · Nov 11, 2015

And as another follow up, the 730 is perfectly fine, the problem was with the sweeper. The setscrew that held in the key on the shaft had fallen out, and the key followed. Joel from Earth Tools suggested that may be the problem, and sure enough it was! I just replaced the key in the keyway and installed a bolt with a jamnut to replace the setscrew.

BCSSHOP · Nov 28, 2015

Hello Kavisiegel,

I have never had the shoe shear off on any machines I have serviced. The shoe is very strong and is usually still intact long after the PTO slider has been destroyed by operators engaging the PTO without clutching or operating with the clutch frozen in the engaged position. Your gear teeth show wear is if at sometime it was operated without the clutch. I've never had gears stick together unless they got slightly twisted usually caused by jamming the PTO into engagement under load. The splines only need a tiny amount of twist to stop the gear from sliding freely. From your picture it appears something is backwards. The orange RTV likely means it has been apart before. Be very careful to orient the sliders and gears exactly as shown in the parts diagram, especially the PTO slider. It only works when assembled with everything correct.

kavisiegel · Feb 22, 2016

BCSSHOP said:
Hello Kavisiegel,

I have never had the shoe shear off on any machines I have serviced. The shoe is very strong and is usually still intact long after the PTO slider has been destroyed by operators engaging the PTO without clutching or operating with the clutch frozen in the engaged position. Your gear teeth show wear is if at sometime it was operated without the clutch. I've never had gears stick together unless they got slightly twisted usually caused by jamming the PTO into engagement under load. The splines only need a tiny amount of twist to stop the gear from sliding freely. From your picture it appears something is backwards. The orange RTV likely means it has been apart before. Be very careful to orient the sliders and gears exactly as shown in the parts diagram, especially the PTO slider. It only works when assembled with everything correct.

Ouch, that's not too encouraging. I did get it back together and running well with the help of a PDF I found (Linked here for future reference, if anyone finds this thread) and the BCS parts diagram. I'm actually not sure if the gear was stuck on the spline or was being retained by the spring and ball bearings - they all came apart at the same time, and quickly. It was a pain to get that back together, fingers pinching the ball bearings and tapping the gear down with a mallet, but I eventually got it and it slid with ease after that. I ran it with my Mainline chipper for a few hours and it was solid. The 730 would spin the clutch when it got clogged up, the 850 spins the belt. (I need to get one of those mechanisms to quickly disengage it!)

It's a little discouraging to hear the gears may be worn pretty bad, but hopefully my use of clutch will prolong them for long enough.

The guy I bought it from ran a landscaping company and blamed one of his employees for operating it incorrectly. Perhaps he pulled the lever - hard - while the engine wasn't running.

The next problem with the 850 is a leaky transmission at the input shaft from the clutch.. got the part, tackling that in the spring. For the $350 I paid though.. I'm still a thankful man!