Bent my bucket cylinder rods

[Rich Waugh]

I was using the Jinma loader the other day and bent the bucket cylinder rods. Both of them; one really badly (45ｰ bend) and the other not as bad but still bad. I had to use the press to straighten them and that screwed up the chrome on the rods, of course. They should be replaced, but I'm using them so far. They aren't leaking yet, but they surely will. I have absolutely NO idea why they bent that way - I wasn't doing anything but moving some loose dirt when my bucket curl started making a horrible groaning noise (relief valve, probably) and my brother noticed the rods were pretzled.

My main problem is, OEM replacements are $400 each - ouch! And that's before I ship them to the Virgin Islands. I'd like to use after-market cylinders that could be had for considerably less than half that, but there are none I can find available in the same configuration. The OEM cylinders are 2" and about 34" long, but only have about a 22" rod in them. So, here's the question:

Is there any reason I couldn't use standard 2"x24" cylinders and relocate the top cylinder mounting points to part way down the arms? Such cylinders can be had for about $150 each and the relocation work wouldn't take more than half a day. A few hose ends or adaptors and I'd be good to go, I think.

What say those of you who know way more than I do about such things?

 

[greg_g]

The guy that rented my TS354C bent the curl rods to nearly 45 degrees, they were unsalvageable. Called Koyker, and made them repeat the price 4 times. I just couldn't believe they could get $395/ea for 1.75" bore cylinders. So I went shopping, and got a 2" pair from the (Bailley's) Surplus Center for $85/ea plus reasonable freight. The pair was delivered at under half of what Koyer wanted for just one. I didn't even have to fool with hydraulic fitting adapters or new hoses, my OE Koyker hoses screwed right in.

If yours close all the way, you can still get a decent set of measurements off them. Start with eye to eye closed, eye to eye extended. Then note how they're fastened top and bottom. You need connector type/width/diameter (ID). Don't worry so much about cylinder diameter (bore). Even after replacing my 1.75" with 2", it was clear I could have gone even bigger. Don't worry so much about fitting type or size either. If necessary, you can always get adapters after the fact.

And if you don't find what you need/want in the Surplus Center, try their regular priced cylinders.

//greg//

 

[Rich Waugh]

Greg,

The problem I have is that the OEM cylinders are evidently a custom-made assemblage rather than a standard cylinder. The collapsed eye-to-eye length is 34" while the fully extended rod is only 22". I can see where they welded on extension to the cylinder tube to get the extended OAL, and then they apparently used a short rod - unfortunately, they didn't use a short enough rod, so the cylinders are capable of extending farther than the bucket curl geometry will allow. That caused the cylinders to flex the rods over the ends of the loader arms when fully extended, probably setting up the bending issue. Would have been better, I think, if the cylinders stopped extending at the same point the bucket curl was maxxed out. That's one issue I'd be trying to address when modifying it to use after-market cylinders.

Bailey's, naturally enough, didn't show any cylinders that would swap directly in - I couldn't get a 34" length until I went to 2-1/" diameter, and they would require new mounting arrangement due to larger pins, insufficient clearance due to the increased diameter, etc. I'm not sure the loader arms would withstand the forces generated by cylinder that much bigger, either, though I could beat that with the PRV, I suppose.

If I had lots of money, I'd just get a better American made loader, but that's out of the question. I've already replaced the ****** OEM valve with a good one, so I just need to address the cylinder issue and I'll pretty much have a good loader. Too far in to back out now, so to speak.

 

[greg_g]

When you mentioned $400 cylinders, I immediately thought "Koyker". I've never actually seen a Chinese loader up close, so I'm not quite understanding why one of the surplus cylinders won't work. So what if a replacement cylinder doesn't retract all the way? Cuz it seems like the more important issue you have to overcome is hyper-extension. Try this: set your bucket at the desired max curl, then measure eye-to-eye. Given that 34+22=56 is too long, I see four 2" surplus cylinders with 1" (26mm) pin holes that are down in the 42"-52" (extended) range. Get the max extension right, then you can simply paint the length of chrome that is still exposed when you're fully retracted.

//greg//

 

[LD1]

How about taking some pics of your existing cylinder to give us a better idea???

And I also have my doubts about how you "think" they were bent. the only feesable way I can see them bending is if you had the bucket dumped ALL the way, and were back dragging with it. And if that is the case, that is a BIG NO-NO on FEL's.

And the only other way I can thing of, similar to what I think you are trying to describe, would be bucket dumped ALL the way again, but pushing and "folding" them over the loader arms. Again, this is also a BIG no-no on a FEL. But for that to happen, I would think it would have either broken the mechanical stops, or pulled the front of the cylinder apaprt.

Either way, if you want us to help you find a cylinder, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Affordable]

Rich, I bought out Jinma Dealer and have several of the new ZL-30 Loader cylinders, send me a e-mail I think we can get you fixed up pretty reasonable

tommy@affordabletractorsalesco.com

Tommy

Affordable Tractor Sales

"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[aczlan]

And the only other way I can thing of, similar to what I think you are trying to describe, would be bucket dumped ALL the way again, but pushing and "folding" them over the loader arms. Again, this is also a BIG no-no on a FEL. But for that to happen, I would think it would have either broken the mechanical stops, or pulled the front of the cylinder apaprt.

Not necessarily, 3RRL had a similar issue, the stops and the cylinder mounting were not correct on his wife's Jinma 284.
He didnt want to lose dump angle by putting in a shorter cylinder or stops, so he moved the cylinder mounts 1-2 inches which fixed the geometry to not bend the rams.
See: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/124396-add-more-bucket-curl-jinma.html


Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

Not necessarily, 3RRL had a similar issue, the stops and the cylinder mounting were not correct on his wife's Jinma 284.
He didnt want to lose dump angle by putting in a shorter cylinder or stops, so he moved the cylinder mounts 1-2 inches which fixed the geometry to not bend the rams.
See: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/124396-add-more-bucket-curl-jinma.html


Aaron Z

I remember a few other threads like that as well. But I can see how that would bend a cylinder a LITTLE, but certainly NOT 45 degrees as the OP has done. That is why I suspect there was something else involved in the equation here.

 

[Rich Waugh]

While I have never knowingly back-dragged with the bucket down, I suppose it could have happened - you'd think, however, that if that was the case I wouldn't have been able to be moving dozens of loads of dirt like I was, right?

It really doesn't matter how it happened, what matters is getting it fixed.

I'm aware of Rob's issue with Loretta's 284 - mine has the same issue and it is simply bad engineering. I'll be correcting that, regardless of what else I do with the thing.

Email your way, Tommy, thanks!

 

[LD1]

While I have never knowingly back-dragged with the bucket down, I suppose it could have happened - you'd think, however, that if that was the case I wouldn't have been able to be moving dozens of loads of dirt like I was, right?

It really doesn't matter how it happened, what matters is getting it fixed.

I'm aware of Rob's issue with Loretta's 284 - mine has the same issue and it is simply bad engineering. I'll be correcting that, regardless of what else I do with the thing.

Email your way, Tommy, thanks!

Is their any chance on getting some pics of the cylinders and your setup??