Backhoe BH650 backhoe

familyman · Jun 20, 2004

Hi gang! Frequent reader, first-time poster.
Just received my first real tractor, a Kubota L2800 w/463 loader and a BushHog BH650 backhoe. I purchased this machine to perform numerous chores around my tiny 2 acres. I have to excavate @ 40 feet worth of my foundation to waterproof it and run a new drain line down to the road; dig @ 800' of drainage trench to redirect seasonal surface water; dig up the stumps of many trees and bushes that I'm cutting; move a 9x12 shed; do site work and footings for a new barn; clear an overgrown 60x200 piece of land of trees and brush, etc., etc. The research I've done suggests this machine is up to it. However the backhoe concerns me. I asked for a 16" bucket (a guess on my part) but on signing day the dealer apologised and said he thought he had one, but didn't, so mounted a 20" instead, no extra $. The BH is having big-time trouble with some large shrub stumps. It digs plain dirt O.K., but put a root in the way and it stops cold. I'm used to watching bigger equipment on job sites tearing through almost anything without too much strain. Am I expecting too much out of this little BH? Would a change to a 16" or 12" bucket make a difference? Thanks!

FamilyFarm · Jun 21, 2004

WELCOME!!
I apologize for not having specific answers to your backhoe situation. My backhoe/tractor is much smaller. I hope by moving this up to top, you will get some good answers from others.
I would think if the larger bucket works well for all but stumps, you just need to loosen the ground around the stumps more before pulling them out. I haven't pulled many stumps with my backhoe, but I find the key is to work it out, rather than try to just pull it out of hard ground.
I hope the tractor works out to your satisfaction!
Terry

v8dave · Jun 22, 2004

( Hi gang! Frequent reader, first-time poster.
Just received my first real tractor, a Kubota L2800 w/463 loader and a BushHog BH650 backhoe.
. . .
The research I've done suggests this machine is up to it. However the backhoe concerns me. I asked for a 16" bucket (a guess on my part) but on signing day the dealer apologised and said he thought he had one, but didn't, so mounted a 20" instead, no extra $. The BH is having big-time trouble with some large shrub stumps. It digs plain dirt O.K., but put a root in the way and it stops cold. I'm used to watching bigger equipment on job sites tearing through almost anything without too much strain. Am I expecting too much out of this little BH? Would a change to a 16" or 12" bucket make a difference? Thanks! )

You don't list your backhoe experience, so I'll make a few suggestions based on my learning experiences with a backhoe.

I dug up a bunch of trees and bushes to clear a building site. At first I was using the boom and dipper stick to try and dig up the root balls. I was disapointed with the "power" of the backhoe.

The real power in the backhoe is the bucket curl. Start the teeth with the boom and dipper and then use the bucket curl. To get the most power from the curl don't try to operate any other cylinders (on the boom or dipper). Let the full pump volume and pressure work the bucket cylinder. Stalled pistons on the other cylinders will open the bypass valve dumping hydraulic fluid and power.

You'll find the greatest force can be exerted at about half the bucket reach and closer. At the shorter distances the bucket will pull the tractor down, which will offer more resistance than lifting the tractor, which is what will happen at the reach limit.

Ripping roots out is likely not dependent on the width of the bucket. Although a bucket could be used to cut roots too and a smaller bucket may help with this. I found that by cutting one side of a stump clear allowed me to reposition the backhoe on the opposite side of the stump (reaching across and down into the hole I've dug) with the bucket under the center of the stump. Then use the curl to force the root ball and stump up. A smaller bucket may help here as you have a smaller amount of excavating to get access under the root ball. Pulling on the stump with the dipper and boom didn't help much.

Familyman, help us tailor our responses to your situation by filling out your info page. We'll also be able reply to a real name. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Happy digging and
Best Regards,
Dave

chrisjbell · Jun 22, 2004

There is good advice in the previous posts, and that could help you out. But...I'd say that a 20" bucket is way too big. I have a smaller tractor and use a Woods 6500 hoe with it and my bucket is 12". That works pretty well in most cases, but my neighbor, who has a full sized Ford (not sure which model, but it ain't a CUT) with the big backhoe often uses an 8" bucket on his because he gets much better results for tough jobs in hard soil - or roots.

I've been thinking about picking up a smaller bucket for mine, and certainly wouldn't want to use a bigger one. My tractor is quite a bit smaller than yours, but I have another neighbor with one a bit bigger and he uses a 12" bucket. 20" sounds way to big for what you have.

familyman · Jun 22, 2004

Thanks for the input, guys!
Dave, the technique you described works well. I used it to dig up some arbor vitae stumps and they popped right out, as long as I dug down around them sufficiently. The yew stumps are a different story because their roots seem to run out radially, below but parallel to the surface. I'm learning alot by just doing the work a little each day. I ordered a 12" bucket from my dealer (Erb & Henry, New Berlinville Pa ---Butch knows his stuff) which should arrive this week. I'm going to keep and use both buckets as needed. I also put a toothbar on the loader bucket -- what a difference!
I'm certainly glad to have found TBN and the knowledgeable people who frequent its pages. Reading the various posts has given me info I probably couldn't have gotten otherwise.

grandad · Jun 22, 2004

Here's a bit more advice in case it's helpful.

We've been ripping out dozens of stumps where a new building is going in at our place. I find the most effective technique is cutting a trench on at least 3 of the 4 sides if you pictured a square with the stump in the center. You have to dig far enough out from the stump that the roots can be cut with the teeth on the hoe. With thicker roots, you can sometimes split the root in half so you aren't trying to cut the whole thing all at once.

If your hoe has enough reach, you can dig left and right and behind the stump without moving the tractor, but with that 20" bucket, you will end up with a pretty good crater.

Only drawback to those small buckets is they can clog up if the ground is moist, or there is a lot of clay.

v8dave · Jun 23, 2004

( Thanks for the input, guys!
Dave, the technique you described works well. I used it to dig up some arbor vitae stumps and they popped right out, as long as I dug down around them sufficiently. The yew stumps are a different story because their roots seem to run out radially, below but parallel to the surface. I'm learning alot by just doing the work a little each day.
. . .
)
Glad to help. As you note the more you try the more you learn. Each plant type is different. I found the radial surface roots the easiest type to dig up. The plants with a heavy tap root were the hardest for me and is how I learned to reach across and dig back--to cut the tap root off. Grandad in the next post covers the radial root problem. Just have to try all the approaches.

Two things at work. Learning the tricks to working stumps and learning the backhoe. It gets easier and the booms will stop jerking around and you'll be able to operate more than one function at a time. Have you had the bucking bronco ride yet as you try to dig up boulders? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You're nearly there when you can smoothly rake the ground toward you with the bucket and you can move the tractor without using the drive train. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave

familyman · Jun 24, 2004

Just to update, I recieved and mounted my 12" bucket today. Swapping was a piece of cake, with my teenage son lending a hand. Digging at the same frustrating stump went alot better -- got too dark to finish, but made alot of progress compared to none with the 20" bucket. Again, the big bucket moved alot of dirt, but a tangled network of 3/4" roots was too much resistance. Thanks to everyone for the good advice /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif!
Charley

v8dave · Jun 25, 2004

( Just to update, I recieved and mounted my 12" bucket today. Swapping was a piece of cake, with my teenage son lending a hand. Digging at the same frustrating stump went alot better -- got too dark to finish, but made alot of progress compared to none with the 20" bucket. Again, the big bucket moved alot of dirt, but a tangled network of 3/4" roots was too much resistance. Thanks to everyone for the good advice /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif!
Charley )

Great news Charlie. Glad to see it is working better. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've only got one bucket, a 12." My smaller BH wouldn't handle a larger one unless I was working in sandy soil. I wasn't sure about how much power your BH has. So, I hesitated to suggest you spend more $$ to test the idea. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Regards,
Dave