biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated

   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #1  

PA hayseed

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I was reading in a trade magazine that home heating oil may begin to have a 20% cut of biodiesel in it. The article was unclear (to me) if this is the current law, or if it is a future recommendation/law. The article went on to say that it burns so clean that they cannot add more biodiesel, because the 8-10 million homeowners would have inadequate senors to detect the flame.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Article in biodiesel magazine.
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #2  
Sounds like they will have to import allot more biodiesel than they do now.

Could you tell us what kind of sensors are homeowners using to detect the flame with these days, seems like they are woefully inadequate for the desired purpose?
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #3  
I don't see this happening soon because of lack of supply of biodiesel. I live in a soybean state and biodiesel is a bit scarce even here, especially after the ethanol boom took hold.

Heating your house with oil seems outdated and I wonder why it remains popular in the NE. Natural gas or propane work well and have more stable prices, at least for the time being. (That will change if either one becomes popular as a transportation fuel.)
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #4  
Maybe this is part of the new energy bill, just passed? Don't know the details or the timing. Think it would make more sense to require maybe 5% or so in HHO AND diesel. The only downside is folks will have to replace their fuel filters shortly after the switch because the biodiesel cleans out the crud. That's the experience of people who have used biodiesel and mixes.

Ralph
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #5  
I think it's going to jack the prices even more. Bio is way too expensive around here for me to use. And I just bought a new tractor that was made to run on it. As long as it's 2 bucks a gallon more than non taxed diesel and they don't even sell non taxed bio, they can keep it.
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated
  • Thread Starter
#6  
here is the link i found this article in
Biodiesel Magazine

As far as people using natural gas or propane, in my area you cannot get natural gas. Additionally, propane - as described in the article- is very expensive. I use it on my wall mounted heater on my porch, and a 100lb tank cost me almost 90 bucks two weeks ago.

I have oil, because that was the type of furnace I had in my house when I bought it. I would love to convert to all wood backup, with a geothermal unit. geothermal are the best, especially with zone heating systems. My brother installs them and recommended them to me whenever I upgrade or replace my current unit.

I posted my origianl question here, cause some of you work in the industry and might have known - or could clear up my questions.

I am not trying to advertise, but I do own shares in a biodiesel refiner. They have 3 plants under construction with another 3 on the way in the next year. they will have several hundred million gallons of biodiesel available in 09 I believe, and will have several million gallons avialable - and growing- as more plants come on line.
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #7  
Interesting that you feel propane is more expensive to use than HHO. I went from a HHO furnace at 70% effeciency to a propane furnace at 95% and my heating costs for the year went down by over half. That was when HHO was under a buck a gallon.

Of course, now I am using wood as primary and propane as backup. Typically 500 gal will last the season and we use propane for hot water, dryer and cooking too.

jb
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #8  
The price of propane is very regional. Here in Michigan if you're in town you use natural gas, out of town you use propane, end of story. Home heating oil is available but hardly anyone uses it - when the oil furnace wears out, they convert to whichever gas they can get in their area. And propane is economical compared to oil, here at least. Me - we have a geothermal system with propane backup. We only use like 100 gals/year of propane. In fact the propane company hates us because they do free tank rental on the assumption you're going to buy 1000+ gals/year!
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Where I live, everyone used to have a coal fired boiler. There are still coal mines in operation all over as well. Coal is relatively inexpensive, depending on type of coal, but it is very dirty. Wood burners and boilers are another heating system commonly used around here, but mainly as a back up or supplemental heat. The most common around here is oil. In a very small rural area, there are four oil companies.

I never said that propane wasn't more efficient or too expensive, just that it is expensive. It isn't cheap.

This is what I learned about propane: wikipedia - an unreliable source at times
Propane is produced as a byproduct of two other processes: natural gas processing and petroleum refining.

The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of production of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil.

The supply of propane cannot be easily adjusted to account for increased demand because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced.

The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year with about 7% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 3% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.

After it is produced, North American propane is stored in huge salt caverns located in Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta, Canada, Mont Belvieu, Texas, and Conway, Kansas. These salt caverns were hollowed out in the 1940s[2] and can store up to 80 million barrels of propane, if not more. When the propane is needed, most of it is shipped by pipelines to other areas of the Midwest, the North, and the South, for use by customers. Propane is also shipped by barge and rail car to selected U.S. areas.[citation needed]
 
   / biodiesel as HHO, 20% mix mandated #10  
Yeah, where you live propane is expensive. It isn't cheap.

Around here, it is less expensive than HHO. Not just to use, but to buy gallon to gallon, propane is much cheaper than HHO (here).

But this is a thread about 20% bio added to HHO. I think that is well intended, but it will trash a lot of systems. (Maybe that's the idea?). Most HHO tanks have a lot of gunk built up in them. My old tank had a good inch of goo. No way the filter is going to catch it all. Heck, the filter would need to be changed a hundred times to get all the goo out.

Stay warm.


jb
 

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