Biodiesel okay for Satoh tractors?
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lens12
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What %? During the summer we run a 10% blend in our equipment. Everthing from compacts to 185 hp tractors, bulldozer , & mini-excavators,
catfishdaddyengineering
Silver Member
K7LN,
I have also heard of people having injector (and other) problems with "dino" diesel. If the biodiesel is made to ASTM specs by a reputable company, then there should not be a problem. Rudolph Diesel ran his first engines off of straight peanut oil.
I have also heard of people having injector (and other) problems with "dino" diesel. If the biodiesel is made to ASTM specs by a reputable company, then there should not be a problem. Rudolph Diesel ran his first engines off of straight peanut oil.
catfishdaddyengineering
Silver Member
If you buy it at a retailer, the fuel delivery sheet has the MFG, tests passed, etc. Same for dino. There are specific ASTM tests for biodiesel. If you buy it out of Joe Bioshine's garage, you get what you pay for unless he shows you where his passes ASTM.
Now, I am in the South, so we do not have as many issues as you guys up North, but spec B100 is safe during the heat of summer. Move down towards B10 as the weather cools.
Now, I am in the South, so we do not have as many issues as you guys up North, but spec B100 is safe during the heat of summer. Move down towards B10 as the weather cools.
PGBiodiesel
Member
I realize this is an old thread, but I feel the need to chime in.
Many people confuse Biodiesel with straight vegetable oil.
I suppose that is understandable since biodiesel can be made from vegetable oil(used or virgin).
Biodiesel is recognised (by the Feds and engine manufacturers) as a legal fuel, vegetable oil is not.
Straight VO will cause injector problems, even if well heated can cause injector pump problems.
The current Dino-diesel available is not the same as what was available when these tractors were designed and built.
The LSD fuel and the ULSD fuel is hard on diesel engines, even the new ones that were supposedly designed to handle the ULSD.
It is especially hard on the older diesels, but they don't care.
Using biodiesel as an additive is very cost effective.
Saves on long-term maintainance, cleans the fuel system, increases upper cylinder lubrication, lubricates the injector pump, improves combustion and reduces the cloud of black smoke.
That part about cleaning the fuel system is important to remember.
Dino-diesel deposits a laquer like coating on everything: fuel tank, fuel lines, filter cases--everything.
B100 is an excellant solvent, works good in a parts cleaner, and as a solvent will dissolve that coating in the fuel system fairly quickly and mostly likely will plug the fuel filter.
Need to carry extra filters and be ready to replace.
When first using biodiesel if one uses a lower blend you get much of the benifits and won't need to change the fuel filters at inconvenient times.
A 2-5% blend is usuable year-round anywhere with the normal seasonal dino-diesel and filters are changed at normal intervals.
A 10-20% blend will work fine to start with in warm weather.
You can do your own blending-buy a jug or barrel of that B100 and add it to whatever you have in the tank already, at whatever ratio you want.
It can change from one tankful to the next.
As the fuel system gets cleaned out, the loss of power as the fuel filter gets plugged is eventually noticeable and you can change the filter at your convience.
Once the fuel system is clean, B100 can be used with no problems in warm weather.
Some biodiesel is made with animal fats and has a much higher gel point than soy-biodiesel so is definitely a warm weather fuel.
Biodiesel can be blended at any ratio with dino-diesel in the main tank.
A two tank and/or heated system is not needed.
Of course places like Minnesota uses heated systems for dino-diesel already.
One real problem is older fuel hoses and seals that have real rubber in them.
Biodiesel breaks the rubber down over time, meaning if a higher blend of Bio in the 20% plus range is used, then in a year or two the rubber fuel line starts to weep-looks kinda like those black soaker hoses.
I've never known one to just blowout.
Sorry for the long rant.
Happy to answer any questions.
Goodluck
Many people confuse Biodiesel with straight vegetable oil.
I suppose that is understandable since biodiesel can be made from vegetable oil(used or virgin).
Biodiesel is recognised (by the Feds and engine manufacturers) as a legal fuel, vegetable oil is not.
Straight VO will cause injector problems, even if well heated can cause injector pump problems.
The current Dino-diesel available is not the same as what was available when these tractors were designed and built.
The LSD fuel and the ULSD fuel is hard on diesel engines, even the new ones that were supposedly designed to handle the ULSD.
It is especially hard on the older diesels, but they don't care.
Using biodiesel as an additive is very cost effective.
Saves on long-term maintainance, cleans the fuel system, increases upper cylinder lubrication, lubricates the injector pump, improves combustion and reduces the cloud of black smoke.
That part about cleaning the fuel system is important to remember.
Dino-diesel deposits a laquer like coating on everything: fuel tank, fuel lines, filter cases--everything.
B100 is an excellant solvent, works good in a parts cleaner, and as a solvent will dissolve that coating in the fuel system fairly quickly and mostly likely will plug the fuel filter.
Need to carry extra filters and be ready to replace.
When first using biodiesel if one uses a lower blend you get much of the benifits and won't need to change the fuel filters at inconvenient times.
A 2-5% blend is usuable year-round anywhere with the normal seasonal dino-diesel and filters are changed at normal intervals.
A 10-20% blend will work fine to start with in warm weather.
You can do your own blending-buy a jug or barrel of that B100 and add it to whatever you have in the tank already, at whatever ratio you want.
It can change from one tankful to the next.
As the fuel system gets cleaned out, the loss of power as the fuel filter gets plugged is eventually noticeable and you can change the filter at your convience.
Once the fuel system is clean, B100 can be used with no problems in warm weather.
Some biodiesel is made with animal fats and has a much higher gel point than soy-biodiesel so is definitely a warm weather fuel.
Biodiesel can be blended at any ratio with dino-diesel in the main tank.
A two tank and/or heated system is not needed.
Of course places like Minnesota uses heated systems for dino-diesel already.
One real problem is older fuel hoses and seals that have real rubber in them.
Biodiesel breaks the rubber down over time, meaning if a higher blend of Bio in the 20% plus range is used, then in a year or two the rubber fuel line starts to weep-looks kinda like those black soaker hoses.
I've never known one to just blowout.
Sorry for the long rant.
Happy to answer any questions.
Goodluck
I'm VERY interested in getting a smaller lawn tractor/mower and using it at 100% biodiesel. I know it won't make much financial sense, but I'm more interested in "going green".
- Anyone have any suggestions on what small tractor can run at 100%?
- Would I better off buying a fairly old one and changing the seals or buying a newer one with Viton seals?
Yes, money is a major sticking point.
- Anyone have any suggestions on what small tractor can run at 100%?
- Would I better off buying a fairly old one and changing the seals or buying a newer one with Viton seals?
Yes, money is a major sticking point.
PGBiodiesel
Member
Hello Seth,
I don't know of any manufacturer that warrants B100 use in their equipment.
Many allow up to B20 and still have full warranty.
All new items lose value as soon as it leaves the dealer.
The best value can be a good used item.
Close inspection is required so any potential problems are considered in the price and personal capabilities.
I don't know how old you mean.
I don't know when tractors or other off-road engines changed pollution standards.
Most on-road vehicles started having synthetic seals etc. in 1992.
The new ULSD is thinner than the old dino-fuel, less energy per gal., less viscosity. So the new sensors might trip with B100.
The smaller the engine, the less extra doo-dads.
Goodluck
I don't know of any manufacturer that warrants B100 use in their equipment.
Many allow up to B20 and still have full warranty.
All new items lose value as soon as it leaves the dealer.
The best value can be a good used item.
Close inspection is required so any potential problems are considered in the price and personal capabilities.
I don't know how old you mean.
I don't know when tractors or other off-road engines changed pollution standards.
Most on-road vehicles started having synthetic seals etc. in 1992.
The new ULSD is thinner than the old dino-fuel, less energy per gal., less viscosity. So the new sensors might trip with B100.
The smaller the engine, the less extra doo-dads.
Goodluck
I'd second PGBiodiesel's comments. I have been making BD for 6+ years and using it in my trucks, autos and S470D. From B100 to B5. I have not experiences any unusual problems. A couple of years of jelling when I had the BD percentage too high during a cold snap, and perhaps a more frequent changing of fuel filters. I have replaced the rubber fuel line (once after several years), but nothing out of the ordinary.
As with most diesels, BD help the engine run more smoothly (higher cetane), and helps with lube of the fuel system parts. But, you do NOT want to be running it at high percentages as the temps drop. BD's jell point will vary depending upon the source of base oil stock. Canola has the lowest jell point (low 30F's IIRC), peanut oil can jell at low 50F's. If there is animal fat in the oil, then jell point can be quite high as well. Unless you know the producer and he knows the source of his oil, jell point can vary widely between batches. Without knowing what the jell point of your BD is, it's hard to recommend a percentage that is safe at some temp.
You can do a quick test yourself by mixing up a small quantity of BD and diesel at some percentage and leaving it outside (or put it in the freezer for a while). I used to do this during the winter, with the same BD percentage as I had in my tank; if the jar of BD was cloudy or solid, I drove the gas car.
As with most diesels, BD help the engine run more smoothly (higher cetane), and helps with lube of the fuel system parts. But, you do NOT want to be running it at high percentages as the temps drop. BD's jell point will vary depending upon the source of base oil stock. Canola has the lowest jell point (low 30F's IIRC), peanut oil can jell at low 50F's. If there is animal fat in the oil, then jell point can be quite high as well. Unless you know the producer and he knows the source of his oil, jell point can vary widely between batches. Without knowing what the jell point of your BD is, it's hard to recommend a percentage that is safe at some temp.
You can do a quick test yourself by mixing up a small quantity of BD and diesel at some percentage and leaving it outside (or put it in the freezer for a while). I used to do this during the winter, with the same BD percentage as I had in my tank; if the jar of BD was cloudy or solid, I drove the gas car.
jeremynichols
New member
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- Oct 28, 2011
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- Satoh S370 Beaver
My wife complained of the "diesel stink" every time I used our S370 Beaver tractor and asked me to try biodiesel. We are fortunate to have several retail suppliers in our area so I didn't have to make my own. I've used both B100 and B20 in the Beaver.
The injector lines melted due to the B100 so I replaced them and changed fuel filters a couple of times as the system cleaned itself out. Otherwise there have been no issues.
The results were so encouraging that I looked into diesel cars. My wife and I now both drive Mercedes diesels, an '87 300D (mine) and a '96 E300D (wife's). So be careful using biodiesel -- you never know what it will lead to!
Jeremy
The injector lines melted due to the B100 so I replaced them and changed fuel filters a couple of times as the system cleaned itself out. Otherwise there have been no issues.
The results were so encouraging that I looked into diesel cars. My wife and I now both drive Mercedes diesels, an '87 300D (mine) and a '96 E300D (wife's). So be careful using biodiesel -- you never know what it will lead to!
Jeremy
