Bradco 511 or 609 on an L4610?

hayden · Feb 27, 2002

My dreaming continues....

Bradco gives their stamp of approval for either a 511 or a 609 hoe on an L4610. They do not support the 611 and will not stand behind it so if I used a 611 I'd be on my own from a warranty stand point.

Given this, would you pick the lower powered, but deeper digging 511 (11 foot digging depth), or the more powerful, but not so deep digging 609 (9 foot diggin depth)?

I just went to look up the digging force specs for the 511 and 609 and it turns out they are very close.

curl dipper
511 5676 lbs 3056 lbs
609 5908 lbs 3232 lbs
611 6167 lbs 4160 lbs

Opinions on whether the reduced digging depth of a 609 is worth only about 5% more digging power? It looks to me like the 511 is the way to go.

The other option of course is to take the chance and use a 611 anyway and hope there is no problem.

What would you do?

rbargeron · Feb 27, 2002

Hi Peter - I think you are right to pick the 511 - for one thing, the reach of the 511 will be handy - digging depth is not often a big deal for me but reach is. Another advantage of the 511 is speed. Using the internal hydraulics of the 4610, the slightly smaller cylinders on the 511 will fill faster.

MarkV · Feb 27, 2002

Peter, I think a lot of the answer is “what do you plan on doing”? My B21 has a little under 8’ of max digging depth with 3100 curl and 1750 dipper. I miss extra power much more than depth. Of course those are my uses rather than yours. The other consideration would be transport height and center of gravity. The longer hoe will add more height and weight up high, which could be a consideration if your property is hilly or has a lot of low hanging limbs. Of course your tractor is much bigger than mine, so it may not be an issue for you.

MarkV

MarkV · Feb 27, 2002

Dick, <font color=blue> digging depth is not often a big deal for me but reach is</font color=blue>, excellent points you bring up.

MarkV

hayden · Feb 27, 2002

The only thing I have that's bigger right now is my imagination. The L4610 is a pure fantasy as I invision selling my company for millions of dollars and retiring to that great tractor land in the sky ...... but I keep waking up to discover it's time to go to work.

hayden · Feb 27, 2002

By the way, if the power on the 609 were significantly higher than the 511, I'd have a much harder time making up my mind, but the specs show the 609 to only be about 5% more powerful, which I doubt would ever be noticable in real use. The difference between the 609/511 and the 611, on the other hand, I would consider to be signifcant. It looks like 30% more on the 611.

The 611 is what I really want, but I'm not sure I'm willing to assume all risk of damage since Bradco doesn't support it and says I'd be on my own.

radman · Feb 27, 2002

I have a Bradco 611 on my Kub 3710. Yes, Bradco does not recommend it but I use it intermittantly. Your 4610 is a bit heavier (3200# vs 2990#)but not a tremendous difference. I dont really know if bradco would even fix your tractor if a recommended hoe broke it. I dig frequently in clay and even then, I wish sometimes I had more power, especially when the clay is wet. If I just extend the hoe and pull the dipper control it will drag the tractor and hoe. The key seems to be in lifting upward as I pull the dipper. This exerts more down force (using the boom or curl cylinder) and keeps the tractor in place. I have never used any other hoe than the 611 but I often wonder how others use a hoe with less power. Even using a 12" bucket it doesn't just slice through the dirt. So far for me, reach hasn't been as important but most of my digging depth is 3'-4'. It seems to me when digging, that most of the force is on the subframe and less on the actual tractor. It think bradco's subframe for the grand L kubotas is very good a distributing the forces of the hoe on the frame. The hoe is mounted tightly to the back of the tractor, the frame goes around the rear axle and bolted around the transmission housing. The front part attaches to the loader mounts near the midpoint of the tractor. My only complaint with the 611 is the slightly slow cylinder movement. Rec pump flow is 10-12 gal/min. The 3710 puts out 7.8 gal but your 4610 is more at 9.6 gal/min. Have I confused you more?

glennmac · Feb 27, 2002

Peter,

All this specs stuff is completely irrelevant to your situation. You have a BAD case of backhoe envy, you've had it a long time, and it is apparently growing. This is a psychological need--not an equipment need, a job need, a terrain need, or a land need.

The only satisfactory solution to your condition is to give in to it. You won't be happy with anything but the baddest hoe. So, if you're going to blow money you don't have--and you ARE going to do it--blow a few grand more and get a TLB. You'll never take the hoe off anyway. You will like driving around with it on too much.

Next case, nurse.

hayden · Feb 28, 2002

Reach is the more useful benefit of a bigger hoe for me too.

hayden · Feb 28, 2002

No confusion - it's a great summary. There's part of me that says "screw it, get the 611". I also wonder exactly WHY bradco says no. Is it tractor frame stress, the additioan weight on the rear while driving around, etc? What do they think might break? Maybe I'll call their tech support people, but I find in general that unless you can get to a design engineer, you get a hollow canned answer without knowledge and explaination behind it. But, you never know - I've been very pleasantly surprised before.

billfires · Feb 28, 2002

Peter, is Bradco saying they won't stand behind the backhoe if you go with the 611? I could see where Kubota wouldn't stand behind the L4610 if you mounted the larger B/H but Bradco not supporting the 611 has me confused.

Bill C

hayden · Feb 28, 2002

Glenn, you're too right about that. I'm a complete addict. Where's tractor's annonomous?

But at the same time, I do actually use the stuff, and my tractoring circumstances have shifted quite a bit in the past 2 years. I've shifted from the tractor living and being used at my 2 acre home with one or two trips a year to my place in VT, to living at the place in VT with one or two trips a year back home for occational work. The place in VT requires that I maintain the full road going to it, even where it's not on my property, plus there are years of work to do in clearing old field, rebuilding walls and foundations, etc. etc. There are fields to reclaim and then cut, outbuildings to construct, hydro systems to install, etc. It's great fun and tractorman's heaven. We are also trying to acquire a bunch of neighboring land in conjunction with a conservation organization and I'd end up owning/managing that land too.

My 4 foot field mower, 800 lb loader, 4 1/2 foot snow blower, and 7 foot BH are starting to look small. They were HUGE when I got them. Truely the biggest and baddest, but my world grew around them. As more of our lives shift from 2 acres to what might become more like 500, I have great justifications fro even bigger and badder.

How's that for a rationalization.

MarkV · Feb 28, 2002

Peter, Have you considered buying a used full size TLB for all the digging projects and use the 4610 for the 3pt tasks? The Bradco hoes are great, but not cheap. A few thousand more would get you into a used commercial TLB with “more power” as Tim Allen would say./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif It is so much fun spending others money./w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

MarkV

rbargeron · Feb 28, 2002

I'll chime in with Dr. Glenn - you are approaching Spring with a case of backhoe lust. Maybe time to face it, your checkbook is a gonner.

Dr. Mark also makes good points - the scale of your Vt. projects might make the 4610 / 511 combo seem too small as well. A tempoarary investment in a commercial TLB might make sense. Figure maybe $25k to get 4wd and useable condition without daily repair. When I got my big Bradco I thought it would do anything - but it has limits. To make a real difference over what you have, a commercial TLB might be something to consider.

hayden · Feb 28, 2002

My question about the backhoe I think may be misleading you on my tractor uses. Today my backhoe is on the tractor maybe 25% of the time, and I don't expect that to change looking forward. That's the primary reason I've passed on the idea of an L48 or the like.

hayden · Feb 28, 2002

Thou doest protest too loudly.

Weren't you asking all about Grand Ls a while ago? Didn't you dig up all the info on Bradco? I was happy with my 2910 until I read all those posts.

Nurse, I think we found the next patient. Actually, the whole TBN membership can line up.

glennmac · Feb 28, 2002

Peter, to stay with the more interesting Freudian aspect of this, I have good news for you: You are NOT rationalizing. No one here would advise a novice with 160 acres (much less 500 acres) to get a 2910. You are realistically, not rationalistically, in big tractor circumstances. In fact, you are officially not allowed under TBN rules and the United States Constitution to have a puny 2910 on 160 rural acres. Maybe you should be thinking M series. I think some of them are getting hydro......Rethink L48, keeping the 2910 for your NH house and occasional mowing in VT......If you go 4610, get the bloody backhoe you WANT the most and forget the legal schmegal warranty BS which they all would try to escape from anyway. (I agree you should get their policy in writing, so you can see what the heck their salesman or technical guy thinks he's talking about legally.)........I guess I forgot to announce that I have overcome both my bigger tractor and backhoe lusts. I am now convinced that the 2910 is the right size for my 11 acres and that I will rent a miniexcavator for the hoe jobs I have in mind.

hayden · Feb 28, 2002

Now you're talking. Keep it up.

Remember my post about why HST doesn't exist in bigger tractors? I was thinking M.

ewoss3 · Mar 2, 2002

Peter I went to the local auction here in Tulsa last month and they had 7 full size backhoes go for less than $6000.00, they were all in good shape and seemed to operate well. They may take more maintenance but it would surely cure the backhoe envy