Braking effectiveness of a 4200

[arrabil]

Howdy. I purchased the 4200 a couple summers ago. It was a little beat up and I've gotten it back to near perfect mechanical condition. The only thing I never fully tackled was the brakes.

In 2wd going downhill, it takes a LOT of pedal force to make it stop. Uphill, flat ground, no problem. My driveway is a 17 degree slope and it won't come to what I would call a safe stop. Unless I'm on the pedal REALLY hard the wheels keep turning. The parking brake needs to be pulled really tight to be effective as well.

So I keep it in 4wd all the time. My property is suited to that just fine. In 4wd it will come to a stop on the driveway even without the brakes. And with the brakes its quite a reassuring stop.

I've tried adjusting the pedals to be at the edge of engaging the brakes just as you touch them. This is contrary to the manual saying there should be 3/4" (I think) of slack before engagement. That changed nothing but I can't be sure I did it right looking back on it (it seemed to be a two person job to get it right).

I watched an Amish guy on a 4700 mow down a 30+ degree slope and I would never have the guts to try that the way it is but he did it over and over just fine. The X475 comes to a stop on the same hill just by releasing the go pedal, no brakes necessary.

My tires were not loaded when I got it. There are 1100 hours on it.

Is this normal and I'm just being touchy or should it stop on a dime?

 

[beenthere]

There is an issue that needs to be addressed. You should have good brakes. And what you describe are not normal for my sister model, the Deere 4300.

I thought they were wet disk brakes, and will try to look that up in the service manual (CD that I have). In the morning..

Sounds like worn brake plates (disks).

 

[arrabil]

They're linkage operated friction disks. I have a PDF of the tech manual. I was just looking at how to replace the disks. Thankfully it doesn't involve cracking the tractor or draining the hydraulic fluid.

How would you say your brakes feel? Can you lock up the rear wheels with minimal effort in 2wd? Do they feel different when the tires are loaded with fluid?

Is it normal for the friction disks to wear out in 1000 hours?

 

[Egon]

My, purchased used, 4200 HST with 1000 hours on has brakes that respond the same as the OP. But they will lock up the rear wheels.

I'm thinking mine might need replacement but still waiting for a manual.

 

[beenthere]

They're linkage operated friction disks. I have a PDF of the tech manual. I was just looking at how to replace the disks. Thankfully it doesn't involve cracking the tractor or draining the hydraulic fluid.

How would you say your brakes feel? Can you lock up the rear wheels with minimal effort in 2wd? Do they feel different when the tires are loaded with fluid?

Is it normal for the friction disks to wear out in 1000 hours?

My brakes (600 hours) on the 4300 lock the wheels with minimum effort. Parking brake holds with minimum pull, on steep hill.
Wear depends on conditions of use, and someone could have been riding the brakes a lot.
Adjusting the linkage too tight will prolly cause the disks to wear that much faster, as they never release.

Good luck with it. But brakes that don't work are a bit unsafe, IMO.

 

[John_in_TN]

I don't understand why your brakes stop well in four wheel drive, but not in two wheel drive. Are you sure you aren't just sliding the rear wheels. You do know that in two wheel drive you only have rear brakes - the front wheels are free-wheeling so they continue to turn as long as the tractor is moving.
I had a 4200 and step banks where I had to use four wheel drive (which also provides four wheel braking) to stop on the bank. In two wheel drive the rear tires would just slide.

 

[arrabil]

It stops in 4wd without the brakes, as in the 4wd system does the braking. Adding the little bit of brake I have makes it that much better.

I thought I had a problem, hard to know without something else to compare to, and it sounds like I should quit hoping I don't.

Yeah, its definitely somewhat unsafe in 2wd. But in 4wd I don't feel its unsafe at all. And I never take it out of "A" range so I'm never going faster than a crawl anyway. It can wait until my hands aren't freezing to the tools.

Thanks.

 

[beenthere]

John in TN
I think you are on to the problem, that arrabil is sliding the rear wheels.
Something that arrabil isn't aware of or just isn't filling us in on. Not to be critical, but I am getting the feeling that it is not the brakes.
Wondering if this mainly happens when there is a load in the bucket ??

 

[arrabil]

Uh, okay. I think you're assuming I'm some kind of mechanical newb but I can entertain that hypothesis if it gets me some answers.

So please let me know what you feel I'm leaving out...

Loader removed, no fluid in the tires, 2wd, tranny "A" range, 17 degree slope down hill, dry pavement, turf tires + crest hill at minimum possible speed + push on pedal with "normal" effort => rear wheels don't lock, tractor may even run away down the hill. Very scary, thought I was going to need to jump the first time.

Same scenario + push on pedal with "excessive" effort => rear wheels will slowly come to a lock, parking brake light will come on, tractor will come to a stop after scaring you not quite to death.

Same scenario but 4wd + no push on pedal at all => tractor will come to a 4wd enhanced stop.

Same scenario but 4wd + push on pedal with "gentle" effort => tractor will come to a fast stop. Couldn't tell you whether the wheels lock because the tractor stops instantly.

Can't possibly be sliding on dry pavement with near new turf tires. Just not possible. Not carrying anything, loader removed, just not possible.

To me that means its either normal for this model, failed brakes, misadjusted brakes, or a hydrostatic transmission problem. What am I leaving out?

 

[beenthere]

That does help a lot. Now I don't have to make the newbie assumption, and apologize that I hinted at that.
And I think your bottom line conclusion is correct, except that it is not normal for this model. -- failed brakes, misadjusted brakes, or hydro problem. But......
I'd first hope it was brake disks that need replacing (although that doesn't jibe well with the different reaction in 4wd). So I'm presently thinking a hydro problem (but don't know how that can be different reaction in 4wd).

To me, the only thing that makes sense is the rear tires are skidding down the hill. But you would notice the skid marks. So I admit that I am puzzled.