Tiller brands of rakes and tillers

[HayDR]

There are many good tillers being sold in the USA market. Keep in mind that John Deere, New Holland, Kubota, Kioti, Massey, Woods, Bush Hog, Rhino and other noted domestic manufacturers do not make their own tillers. Does this mean that their tillers are off brands?

King Kutter manufactures functional tillers and implements that are predominantly sold by Fleet Stores like TSC, Rural King, ETC and also by auction yards like Lady & King (TN) and Green's(OH). Just where are their service departments? Just as their differences in Kubota's and Jinma's there are differences between CCM Tillers and King Kutter tillers. We can sell King Kutter tillers at or below any of the special prices posted on TBN, but we choose not to sell the KK tillers.

Here are some of the differences between KK and CCM tillers.

CCM tillers are powder painted. Just ask KKII owners as to the quality of their paint or the lack of paint.

The CCM MR130-49" tillers have a 60 HP Gear drive Transmission. The KK TG-48XB has a 25 HP transmission, KKII have a 50 HP transmission.

CCM MR tillers have adjustable hitch blocks for offset capability and multiple size tractor adjustability. The KK tillers have a fixed pin hitch limiting it's tractor applications and the KK tillers do not offset.

CCM tillers have a one piece rigid stamped side gearbox cover which seals against the 8mm end plate frame. The KK has a two piece cover with two seals : one of seals is on the very outside of the cover- this cover is flat sheet metal that is not rigid and will not hold its shape over time and will leak gear oil continually.

CCM MR tillers have an inter-locking double metal shield with a steel hub protecting the tine rotor seals & bearings from winding up string, plastic or crops in such a manner to damage the seals or bearings. The KK has only a rubber oil seal pressed in a hub to protect the bearing.

It is not my intent to trash KK or its implements. They have their place in the market but when you asked the differences I am compelled to answer your questions. There are many differences between a Jinma and a John Deere but both are tractors.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

There are many good tillers being sold in the USA market. Keep in mind that John Deere, New Holland, Kubota, Kioti, Massey, Woods, Bush Hog, Rhino and other noted domestic manufacturers do not make their own tillers. Does this mean that their tillers are off brands?

King Kutter manufactures functional tillers and implements that are predominantly sold by Fleet Stores like TSC, Rural King, ETC and also by auction yards like Lady & King (TN) and Green's(OH). Just where are their service departments? Just as their differences in Kubota's and Jinma's there are differences between CCM Tillers and King Kutter tillers. We can sell King Kutter tillers at or below any of the special prices posted on TBN, but we choose not to sell the KK tillers.

Here are some of the differences between KK and CCM tillers.

CCM tillers are powder painted. Just ask KKII owners as to the quality of their paint or the lack of paint.

The CCM MR130-49" tillers have a 60 HP Gear drive Transmission. The KK TG-48XB has a 25 HP transmission, KKII have a 50 HP transmission.

CCM MR tillers have adjustable hitch blocks for offset capability and multiple size tractor adjustability. The KK tillers have a fixed pin hitch limiting it's tractor applications and the KK tillers do not offset.

CCM tillers have a one piece rigid stamped side gearbox cover which seals against the 8mm end plate frame. The KK has a two piece cover with two seals : one of seals is on the very outside of the cover- this cover is flat sheet metal that is not rigid and will not hold its shape over time and will leak gear oil continually.

CCM MR tillers have an inter-locking double metal shield with a steel hub protecting the tine rotor seals & bearings from winding up string, plastic or crops in such a manner to damage the seals or bearings. The KK has only a rubber oil seal pressed in a hub to protect the bearing.

It is not my intent to trash KK or its implements. They have their place in the market but when you asked the differences I am compelled to answer your questions. There are many differences between a Jinma and a John Deere but both are tractors.

ONE of the KK tiller models has a 25 HP gearbox. The MOST COMMON sold, (and the particular model I'm talking about) the KK II line, the model/line I recommended has a CAST IRON (Not a light gauge stamping) gearbox rated at 50 HP , but has proven time and time again to be capable of handling MUCH more. (Mine has logged literally hundreds of hours behind a 65 hp tractor. Enough time to wear out one complete set of tines and well into the second set with ZERO mechanical issues) In this case, that's all a moot point however, as the OP is PROBABLY wanting a 4' tiller to begin with. I don't know of too many folks who would be using a 4' tiller on anything as large as a 50 HP tractor to begin with. More'n likely, something 20 to 30 hp MAX.

The 48" KK II DOES is in fact an offset hitch.

I've owned my KK II for 6+ hard years of use without seeing the first of your quoted "continuous" leaks, nor have I EVER heard of ANYONE complaining of these "continuous leaks". Rumor and inuendo aren't facts, they're just sales spin and hype that don't do much for your credability when cold, hard facts tell us otherwise.

A good spin on the description of the seals and their protection doesn't change the fact that there is no inherent flaw in the design of the KK tillers. If simple and effective works just as well as complicated, simple seems the BETTER choice to most folks.

And where is your "CCM service dept"? Certainly not in MY neighborhood, nor the neighborhood of the OP. Unless a buyer is prepared to haul or ship their purchase back to Tennessee, the fact that you have a service dept isn't any more or less beneficial to him than KK not having a local service dept.

As far as paint goes, if I was buying a tiller to park in my family room and look at, shiney paint might be an issue. But I buy tools to USE. Paint gets chipped, scratched, and worn off. When the "pretty" is gone, I still expect MORE than just that initial shine.

While there is a difference between a Jimna and a John Deere TRACTOR, that comparison has absolutely ZERO bearing on the comparisons between the 2 tiller lines. (Oh, and by the way, I didn't "ask the differences". I already know them. One is cheaper, does just as good of a job, is available locally to the majority of us, and has a proven track record the equal of brands and models far more expensive. The other, I'd have to drive 300+ miles to get OR pay a truck line several hundred bucks to get it here)

I haven't "knocked" YOUR product. You want to compare, we'll compare. Just use FACTS, not spin and misinformation. Let's compare apples to apples. Not selectively misquoting specs on various models to get the desired spin you want. They may well be near equals, but without a retail sales outlet close at hand, neither would be a real bargain compared to the other. Shipping no doubt adds to the cost of yours. Buying a KK II locally would no doubt make it less expensive overall. Both have their merits. Neither would always be the ideal answer for everyone, all the time. I'm sure you have a quality product. If the day ever comes I'm in the need for another tiller, AND, you have an outlet nearby, I'll consider one. Until then, I'm sticking with what I KNOW does the job, short term and long, and will cost me less all along the way.

 

[HayDR]

Farmwithjunk,

Speaking about King Kutter quality and quality control, I point you to your own words.

From all I've seen, King Kutter's biggest issue is with consistancy and quality control. One piece will be well built and the next one off the line will have shabby welds, poor paint, or bad fit from part to part.

I don't know this as fact, but it SEEMS that maybe they grew too quick and lost control on what went out the door. I have a 6' tiller of theirs and couldn't be happier. Bro-in-law just bought a 6' finish mower and hasn't been able to cut his 3-1/2 acre yard one time without some sort of breakdown. (in 4 attempts)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/83102-has-king-kutter-gone-chinese.html?highlight=king+kutter+tiller+paint

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmwithjunk,

Speaking about King Kutter quality and quality control, I point you to your own words.

From all I've seen, King Kutter's biggest issue is with consistancy and quality control. One piece will be well built and the next one off the line will have shabby welds, poor paint, or bad fit from part to part.

I don't know this as fact, but it SEEMS that maybe they grew too quick and lost control on what went out the door. I have a 6' tiller of theirs and couldn't be happier. Bro-in-law just bought a 6' finish mower and hasn't been able to cut his 3-1/2 acre yard one time without some sort of breakdown. (in 4 attempts)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/83102-has-king-kutter-gone-chinese.html?highlight=king+kutter+tiller+paint

I'm very aware of "my own words". As you can read, I sure wouldn't recommend their finish mowers, or most of their product line for that matter. But this thread ISN'T about their entire product line is it? It's all about TILLERS. In a multitude of post's on TBN, as well as several other sites, I've always said that the King Kutter II line of tillers is BY FAR the best product King Kutter has to offer. As it is apparent, you've done quite a bit of searching for my thoughts on King Kutter in general. Obviously, nowhere did you find even the first hint of a negative on the subject of their TILLERS or it would be highlighted. If it wasn't such a waste of my time, I'd go back through the archives and find out how many dozens of times I've posted my thoughts OR, agreed with countless others who have nothing but PRAISES for the KK II tiller.

My previous post you highlighted, if read IN CONTEXT with the entire thread, was in response to several posted BEFORE it in that thread, in which folks had strayed off the original topic of that thread and were commenting about the quality of King Kutter mowers. (In this particular case, rotary mowers) But, that post DOES point out the FACT that I am more than pleased with my KK II tiller. I'll be the VERY FIRST to point out that their product line ISN'T the prettiest as a general rule, BUT, their tiller line takes a back seat to NO ONE in price, performance and longevity "on the job".

Again, isn't THIS THREAD an attempt to answer the original posters questions about TILLERS? (NOT finish mowers, grader blades, ect) I'll continue to avoid misrepresenting "facts" or steering the emphasis to other products besides tillers, and stick with my words.

If your ONLY issue is "how pretty" your tiller is, by all means, buy another. But if you want durability, excellent performance, and a reasonable price that most of us can buy LOCALLY (without the added cost of cross-country shipping) , the King Kutter II line is at the top of most peoples list.

 

[hotchkiss]

Dear Santacruzer:

I have experience with both King Kutter Tillers and CCI (the company that sells the CCM tiller and which is probably a little bias when it comes to the issue you have raised). Some King Kutter tillers are manufactured approximately one hour from me. Therefore, I know many people who have owned one. I have owned two. While I do not personally know any other person who has had a single problem with a King Kutter tiller, I know of many who would agree entirely with Farmwithjunk. I did have problems with my first King Kutter tiller. Those problems are set forth in a thread previously posted when I was in search of the best tiller out there.

I returned the first King Kutter tiller to the dealer that sold it to me and recieved a brand new one. I own a manufacturing business (unrelated to the agriculture industry) and know first hand that regardless of how hard one tries, a product that does not meet a manufacturers standards will go out the door every once in a while. After being in business for seven years and selling hundreds of thousands of products, we too have had six (6) of our products returned in connection with warranty claims.

There is no doubt that my first King Kutter tiller was not one that met the Company's standards. My second tiller has been flawless. It has been just as Farmwithjunk has described. No, it was not specially manufactured for me. There were about 100 tillers on the lot, and I went over and randomly selected one after they told me to pick out a new one.

CCI has questioned where King Kutter's service department is, and has at least implied that you will recieve better service from CCI than you will from anyone that sells King Kutter tillers. Please allow me to summarize my experience with CCI since it has opened the door.

After posting the thread mentioned above, I learned of CCI and CCM tillers. I also have an interest in a large excavating company and wanted to purchase several of CCM's SR-240 tillers. I do not recall the price. But since we purchase several new John Deere 850 dozers and 200 excavators each year at several hundred thousand dollars each, I was fairly certain we could afford a SR-240 tiller or two. We were going to use the tillers in connection with a few reclamation jobs. I also wanted one to go with a new tractor I was purchasing.

I called CCI several times before I could get anyone to even talk to me about the SR-240 tillers. When I did get to speak with someone, the gentleman was somewhat rude and appeared to feel as though I was wasting his time. Pehaps everyone that purchases the SR-240 tillers purchases more than I wanted to purchase (I only wanted to buy 10-15). Nevertheless, I did get him to agree to send me some additional litature on the tillers. That was in March or April of this year. To date, I have not recieved anything from CCI.

In this instance, follow Farmwithjunk's advise. I doubt that he has any financial interest in King Kutter and his credibility is only improved by CCI's attempt to attack it. He has admitted that not all King Kutter products he has seen or used live up to his standards, but the tiller has.