Branson 4520r, having a whine at higher RPM's- Need Help!

[sonofgrace]

My Branson 4520r (2014- Tier 4) began to whine at 2300 rpm's. A couple weeks later the yellow emissions light on the dash came on. I called the dealer and he said it was likely my DPF filter clogged. I took the tractor the 3 hours to my nearest Branson service guy and they confirmed it was my DPF and they'd change it as it was under warranty. I brought the tractor home and was disturbed to find that the motor still whined and that they had no idea why it was doing that. Of course, now, as of a month ago, my tractor is out of warranty....

Here's the details: The whine is somewhere in the motor. It began at 2300 rpm's. Not wanting to run it with the whine I'd run it at lower rpm's; after it got hot from working the whine would go away. Sometimes when not under a load, usually when going down hill, the whine would return. When I would put it again under load (disc-harrow, "bush-hog", chisel plow) the whine would go away. Often when the whine would begin I could press the brake, putting the motor under load, the whine would go away. I was anxious about all the time I ran it under the burn-off rpm (2400rpm) knowing the filter was accumulating soot.

This all began about a year ago.

Over the months the whine would appear at lower and lower rpm's but with all the same load/no load experiences. A couple months ago the whine began at 1900rpm's, but would not go away. The dealer surmised that it was a back pressure issue and told me that as soon as the warranty was up that I could gut the exhaust filters and it likely would eliminate the whine.

Two weeks ago the whine showed up at 1600rpm's and mostly would go away and show back up along the same lines I explained above- load/no load. After about an hour the tractor began to slow, the rpm's began to rise and fall, and then finally the tractor lost all power and struggled not to cut off. I barely got the job done that day.

The next day I gutted the innards of the exhaust but to my great concern, it did not eliminate the whine. I no long worry about running the tractor at lower rpm's but it is hard to pull a chisel plow at such low rpm's. Gutting the exhaust seems to have helped some but the whine still shows up now at 17-1900 rpm's.

I barely got the job I did today done for all these same reasons.

I talked to the service engineer at Branson, Scott, and he had no answer for me. I talked to a tech at Big Red's Tractor in Texas and he said his first guess was a fuel mixture issue (burning to rich)- a guess as they'd never had this issue before and couldn't imagine what in the motor could be whining.

As the Branson 4520 motor is actually an A-Series Cummins, it was suggested I take it to the nearest Cummins shop. It looks like that's my only option.

Anyone have any ideas? Please help!

 

[IH3444]

Engine Type: A2300N2 Vertical, 4 cycle Kukje Water Cooled Diesel Combustion System
452R - Branson Tractors

What hours did the whine start? Have you serviced the tractor with filter replacements, specifically oil? Does the machine have an oil pressure gauge? What weight oil are you using?
Is the clutch adjusted properly? Throw out bearing could not be fully releasing. Flywheel could be loose on crankshaft, although that is usually a very low rumble sound. Oil pump could be faulty. Main bearing could be receiving less oil than it should. Noise could be in transmission and due to coupling to engine sounds like coming from engine. Could be a hydraulic pump motor for power steering, or other accessory whining. You can some times pin point a noise by getting a broom stick, placing it where you think the noise is coming from, and holding the rounded end to your ear and listening. Harbor freight sell a cheap engine "doctor" stethoscope I think. That many help.
I would contact Branson and see if they would still cover it under warranty. It's only 5 years old, and I'm certain low hour machine. What is their warranty, and what does it cover?

 

[sonofgrace]

Thank you for the reply, IH3444.

The whine started around 600 hours. I now have nearly 700.

I've been very rigid in my filter replacement- especially oil.

I use Retella T 15-40.

There is no oil pressure gauge, just an idiot light.

The clutch seems to be operating correctly.

I just bought one of those stethoscope and plan use it today. I would have been out checking on my tractor earlier but my son and I were out chasing coons till the wee hours.

I'm not going to hold my breath about Branson and my expired warranty. Mainly because the dealer I bought from in Cummin Ga, sold the business...

Thank you again.

 

[ptsg]

The Branson HQ for the US is in Rome, Ga. Doesn't look that far away looking at the map.

Have you tried to remove the belt to see if either the alternator or the water pump have bad bearings? I don't see how this could cause the engine to shutoff but maybe there are two problems.

I get a bit of a whining on mine but it's only when it's very cold and comes from the hydraulic pumps. So it's probably just the oil that is cold.

 

[sonofgrace]

Using the stethoscope I found the whine in the water pump. After consulting with wise counsel we reckoned I must have two problems- one in the water pump and another likely in my injection pump and/or injectors. To a couple people who know these kinds of things, independently of each other, they speculate I got bad fuel or water or some kind of foreign matter in the fuel works.

 

[mini14]

if you have water in fuel it should show up in the the filter, I was interested in these tractors a year ago and I think these engines are exact copies of the cummins a2300 engines used in Korean made equipment , or they are actually made for cummins by kukje. If , I have a Doosan 430plus skid steer with the a2000 engine in it. Is the fuel pump mechanical or electrical. I can hear my fuel pump struggle in my cummins powered dodge ram sometimes.If you can repeat the scenario again if it stalls unscrew the fuel filter to see if it is full.

 

[Texasmark]

if you have water in fuel it should show up in the the filter, I was interested in these tractors a year ago and I think these engines are exact copies of the cummins a2300 engines used in Korean made equipment , or they are actually made for cummins by kukje. If , I have a Doosan 430plus skid steer with the a2000 engine in it. Is the fuel pump mechanical or electrical. I can hear my fuel pump struggle in my cummins powered dodge ram sometimes.If you can repeat the scenario again if it stalls unscrew the fuel filter to see if it is full.

Per knowledge obtained from public sources, and some speculation and experiences, Kukje is an international heavy equipment mfgr. and has obtained a Cummins License for engine manufacture. That means they march to the same drum beat as the Cummins engines produced domestically. Also they are ISO 9001 certified which means they have been inspected by an international set of rules/inspections attesting to the fact that they follow their specifications as required.... The company where I was employed was 9001 certified also and I went through what was required to get certified.

The B 3.3 NA in my 6530 was produced by Komatsu Heavy Equipment in Japan. The year model is 2007. The A 1100 NA in my 2400 was produced by Kukje in 2016. I do not know why and do not know if the larger Cummins Licensed engines used by them today are all now produced in S. Korea by them or still produced elsewhere; probably depends on their licensing agreements and capabilities for the types of engines they require today. If really interested, you can go up to one, pop the hood and look on the side of the engine....plate stating type and country of origin clearly visible.

Noises in heavy machinery are hard to locate and I'm happy that you found yours. I hope you have come to closure on the problem. A letter to Branson management might get your a compassionate answer and a refund/new water pump since the problem occurred during the warranty, was addressed, and wasn't corrected.

The fuel filters on my engines are built to handle both particulate and water injestion. They are equipped with drains for draining out any accumulated water and particulate matter to filter impurities. I haven't changed, nor drained any filters on my Bransons, and I don't remember the last time I changed a fuel filter or drained any fuel from a Ford. One can always pick up a load of contaminated fuel but getting to the engine would be an uphill climb. Maybe, if you do have a pump/injector problem and it was also exposed while in warranty, that too might be mitigated.

 

[sonofgrace]

Thanks, y'all. I actually had two problems: the belt wasn't tightened to whatever tension was needed to eliminate a whine and I had to replace my injection pump and injectors. The tractor runs great now. I ordered "Baldwin Dahl 65" water/fuel separator that the tech at "Big Red's Tractor" in Tx recommended I put inline. It arrived yesterday.

I'm grateful for the replies. It was once said that there is wisdom in an abundance of counselors. On the front side of a problem, being relatively unskilled in "wrench turning", I find myself tending toward panic, as I also tend to assume the worst. $2800 later, although wasn't the worst, was pretty bad, but didn't kill my 10 year old tractor service business. Having people weigh in with all the possibilities was an education for me, for which I'm grateful. One day I'll not be so unskilled in these matters...

Thank y'all.

Per knowledge obtained from public sources, and some speculation and experiences, Kukje is an international heavy equipment mfgr. and has obtained a Cummins License for engine manufacture. That means they march to the same drum beat as the Cummins engines produced domestically. Also they are ISO 9001 certified which means they have been inspected by an international set of rules/inspections attesting to the fact that they follow their specifications as required.... The company where I was employed was 9001 certified also and I went through what was required to get certified.

The B 3.3 NA in my 6530 was produced by Komatsu Heavy Equipment in Japan. The year model is 2007. The A 1100 NA in my 2400 was produced by Kukje in 2016. I do not know why and do not know if the larger Cummins Licensed engines used by them today are all now produced in S. Korea by them or still produced elsewhere; probably depends on their licensing agreements and capabilities for the types of engines they require today. If really interested, you can go up to one, pop the hood and look on the side of the engine....plate stating type and country of origin clearly visible.

Noises in heavy machinery are hard to locate and I'm happy that you found yours. I hope you have come to closure on the problem. A letter to Branson management might get your a compassionate answer and a refund/new water pump since the problem occurred during the warranty, was addressed, and wasn't corrected.

The fuel filters on my engines are built to handle both particulate and water injestion. They are equipped with drains for draining out any accumulated water and particulate matter to filter impurities. I haven't changed, nor drained any filters on my Bransons, and I don't remember the last time I changed a fuel filter or drained any fuel from a Ford. One can always pick up a load of contaminated fuel but getting to the engine would be an uphill climb. Maybe, if you do have a pump/injector problem and it was also exposed while in warranty, that too might be mitigated.