Building on black dirt

iwkr40 · Sep 18, 2004

Does anybody have any ideas or experiences building on black dirt(organic soil). I want to put a 100' x 60' commercial building on my property, also a septic system. The black dirt is great for growing vegetables and crops it is organic naturally. I know the black dirt goes beyond 6' deep since I had test pits dug for a perc. test. The property passed the perc. test but the towns engineer didn't want anything to do with it because she had never done a septic system on black dirt before. She told be I would have to go to the county's health dept. and they informed me they would have to do the perc test all over again. I live in orange county, NY. Any insight on these problems would be greatly appreciated. This is the best forum I have come across on the web. Keep up the good work!!!

ronjhall · Sep 18, 2004

Welcome to TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
My home and out buildings are built on gravel. So I can't help much.
You may want to post your questions on CountryByNet.
There are forums that are specific to your questions.

Egon · Sep 18, 2004

If it's a commercial building it should be subjected to the local building codes and as such may require Engineering consulting assistance for structure and all the amenities such as the field system.

Egon

sneaky_pete · Sep 18, 2004

"Black dirt" is not very descriptive; it could be dark from lots of organic material, or dark from lots of clay. Clay is bad ju-ju for foundations, it expands when wet and shrinks when dry, which will eventually crack a concrete slab foundation and make the doors and etc. not square.

You need to get the soil tested to see what it is really composed of. Here in Tejas, the county agricultural extension agency will do it for you very reasonably. I don't know if NY has a similar resource or not.

Good luck with it -

Pete

boustany · Sep 18, 2004

Well .... if it really is oranic material, its usually a no no to build on it. You need a soil engineer (I think that what you call them) to give you a verdict.

If its only down to 6 foot or so, if it were a house it wouldn't be a big problem if you put in a foundation with a basement. However deep the organic goes, you'll hit something eventually. You may end up having to build on a series of columns or something along those lines, b ut I can't imagine doing a building that size on stilts.

mrcaptainbob · Sep 18, 2004

Don't know ANYthing about the actual building, but as for the on site septic system, there are some great alternatives to the standard tank/drainfield. Here's a great site:
http://www.septic-info.com/doc/cat_list/technologies/home.html

OldWelder · Sep 19, 2004

CaptainBob,

Howdy,
I work for a civil engineer and am just below that region of black dirt. I'm thinking he is in the Pine Island area.

The biggest problem in this area is getting local boards to go along with some of these new systems. But with the right engineer along with him, he has a chance.

mrcaptainbob · Sep 19, 2004

We were in the throes of getting the county to accept that type of system about two years ago. But since we decided not to build there and moved to a different county, our interest in the outcome of what we started wained. I wonder if they now accept it, as many other counties adjacent to them already do. If it comes to us having to replace the sytem here, I would most definatley work towards one of the new sytems.

OldWelder · Sep 20, 2004

I'm home with the bug today, but sent your link into the office yesterday.
May be something we want to investigate farther too.

Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

rambler · Sep 20, 2004

Around 'here' the problem is if you don't have any top soil with a septic. Having 6' would be cool. They are concerned with how close the water table is to the surface, and if the topsoil has been disturbed. Deeper is better generally for topsoil tho.

As to building, I have no real clue, but it will probably cost extra to stablize the footing area of your building.

The problem with either septic of footings is that deep black top soil usually is by a wetlands, saturated soils, and difficult to do either in those conditions.

--->Paul