building soil???

Anonymous Poster · Jun 27, 2003

Have leveled some ground. Found 1"-2" down = missouri clay. Like concrete when dry/hard. Grass not grow very well in any case. Some topsoil saved for re-spreading but not enough - there wasn't enough in the first place. Looking for a good formula to till in to make 3" - 4" minimum for seed or probably sod.

Have tried (per square foot) around 1/2 pound moss & 1/2 pound rotted manure, ounce or so gypsum and lime. Any suggestions as to a better formula for building it up enough for grass (no plans for a garden in this area-just want well rooted grass). Thanks

JEH

Darren · Jun 27, 2003

People don't build soil unless you consider the ersatz stuff you get by appliying fertilizers. Plants, micro-organisms, fungi, etc. build real soil. to help it along, grow a cover crop of buckwheat, chop and incorporate as it begins to flower. you can probably do three crops a summer it grows so fast. In the fall put in winter rye. In the spring mow it down before it goes to seed. To really put some nitrogen into the soil come back with hairy vetch next if the soil is coming around otherwise continue with the buckwheat foolowed by winter rye regimen. Hairy vetch can actually load the soil up with too much nitrogen so test for nitrogen the yae following.

What you're looking for is worms. The more worms the better your soil. When they start showing up in mass, things are looking good. Chemical fertilizers burn out the worms and all the other soil builders. You want to recreate a natural ecology that kicks nature into high gear.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 29, 2003

Darren:

Thanks. Didn't know you could get 3 crops buckwheat in a summer. Unfortunately, although you are no doubt correct in "building" soil long term, don't have time for that as I am simply trying to get some decent grass growing to sell the property. So I'm going to be stuck with a short term fix. Thanks.

JEH

Hoeman00 · Jun 29, 2003

Rip the ground or plow and put on sand and lots of manure.
I don't know about weight but 1-1.5" of sand and same in manure then till.
2" of peat moss will help instead of manure.
Horse manure would be the best to build organic matter.
Chicken manure also has calcium and other micro nutrients.
Take a large tiller and blend it in.
If u can subsoil it, it will help loosen the soil profile and that will let water and worms move in.
Try and find a subsoiler w/ the 'wings' on the point as this lifts the soil.
We have a large 5 shank Case model and it actually lifts the soil about 4" when we run it 18" deep.
These take about 50 hp/ shank.

Darren · Jun 29, 2003

If you want the grass fast, find out how much it would cost to have someone hydroseed. The slurry they use contains everything to get stuff going. Might not last long term, I've seen it grow grass on rocky slopes, but it will get grass growing long enough to sell the place.

Anonymous Poster · Jul 1, 2003

Hoeman00:

Thanks. Had thought about subsoil ripping. The stuff I've got is a fine clay-hard as a rock when dry, gooey mess when wet. The subsoilers I've seen around here (straight chisels or "wing" type-called middlebusters) are KK. No shear pins. If you hit anything either tractor goes over, or, more likely just bends ruining it. Of course they are cheap enough $100 bucks or so. I may try that. Just laid some sod on small hill and getting ready to lay some more. Used about 1"-2" moss+little manure+some gypsum+bit of lime. Don't have a tiller yet for tractor (trying to decide between a straight or counter-rotating), so use the tiller on an old Gravely-mixes it up real good down to 3"-4"-especially when backing up-guess that's a case for buying the counter-rotating tiller! Have you ever used a counter-rotating tiller, if so, are they that much better??? Thanks for your suggestions. (50hp per shank!!!-with my TC40 guess I could get 75% of one!!!). As far as sand, will that help "cut" the clay??? Guess it would and would certainly be cheap enough to add (certainly cheaper than gypsum).

Darren: Hadn't thought (or even heard of) use of "slurry". Will check on it, but seems expensive (me, being a cheap SOB). Thanks.

JEH