Burning "scrap" oils and fluids

[digger2]

I've seen alot of talk on here about burning everything in diesels from used motor oil,vegatable oils,even udt.My own cousin who is a farmer mixes used veg. oil with his diesel and runs it with no probs. yet,so he says.Anyway,my question is this-does anybody know if burning this "scrap" oil will hurt the engine if used on a regular basis?
I think i read somewhere about Diesel himself designing the engine to run on vegatable oil,but UDT???
Also,are there any special filters made for straining this "scrap" oil before i start dumping it in my tank.And what percentage of this stuff can i run
(mixed with diesel),before i run into trouble?How about in winter?I've got quite a bit of used UDT out in the garage. Digger2

 

[john_bud]

Some folks do indeed burn used oils in diesel engines. From reading and a background in the chemical industry, I would say you want to filter it well. If you were to do this get a 3 filter cascade. 1st would be a 50 micron filter, next a 10 micron and finally a 5 micron (or 2 micron) final filter. The output from the 50 micron would go directly to the 10 then to the 5. I would buy Donaldson filters that were also water absorbing in the 50 and 10 micron. Cost premium is 2-3 bucks over a standard filter. You can buy a clear water pump from Harbor freight for about 30-35 bucks. Run the pump / filters in a recirculation mode for 30-120 minutes depending on how dirty the oil is and how much you have. Filters would probably be good for 500 gallons of hydraulic fluid and maybe 100 gallons of engine oil.

Mix 25-50% of the oil to diesel. Pump thru the filters into mixing cans and dilute the oil with diesel prior to adding to the tank.


I personally DON'T do this. But, it probably works well enough. Expect the tractor fuel filter to clog faster than normal. The important contaminate to remove is water. Water in injectors is BAD. If you don't use water absorbing filters, add some water dispersant to the raw oil. Your choice to do this or not, is YOUR choice and you get to accept the results. Maybe lower fuel costs, maybe some un-expected down time.

jb

 

[DieselPower]

My answer would be no to burning lubricating oils. Over time the components of the additive package can leed to deposits in injectors and cylinders. Used lubricants are best recycled, used as fuel in heaters designed for them or as fuel for industrual furnaces also designed for them.

It's true a diesel engine will burn most any combustible liquid. It's not a matter of whether or not they will burn them but how long the engine will last. The engine is designed to burn diesel fuel, not oil.

 

[RalphVa]

When I had wood stoves in NJ and Vermont houses, I'd burn pans of used oil in the NJ stove. It burned fine but left a terrible after smoke if I allowed the base wood fire to burn down such that there was then no draft to waft away the stink.

I wouldn't want to burn used oil mixed in with diesel. It's much heavier and higher boiling that when the machine was designed for. It'd likely form a lot of carbon in the cylinder head.

There are plenty of people burning vegetable oils and leftover grease. Do a Google search and you'll find lots of information.

 

[RWolf]

I personally wouldn't burn used oil in any diesel however filtered transmission oil is a plus for diesels. I haven't run into any diesel mechanics who didn't say that the used tranny oil was a great lubricant for the injector pump. When I had my 82 chevy 3+3 diesel I would fill the filters with tranny fluid at filter change time. I couldn't tell the difference in performance from tranny fluid or diesel.

 

[john_bud]

My answer would be no to burning lubricating oils. Over time the components of the additive package can leed to deposits in injectors and cylinders. Used lubricants are best recycled, used as fuel in heaters designed for them or as fuel for industrual furnaces also designed for them.

It's true a diesel engine will burn most any combustible liquid. It's not a matter of whether or not they will burn them but how long the engine will last. The engine is designed to burn diesel fuel, not oil.

While I tend to think you are correct, I personally have not seen any hard data one way or the other. Diesel engines burn pretty hot when worked and that would tend to remove any deposits. (In theory)

Let's say that you are correct. Let's also say that the used oils bugger up the fuel system after 1000 hours (not an unreasonable number based on reports.) If the tractor burns 1 gal / hour at $4 a gal that's $4000 of fuel saved. Is it worth the risk to save some fuel costs? Dunno. Maybe he will report back after 1,2,3000 hours and let us know? I burn relatively little and just using straight #2 works out ok for me.

jb

 

[CurlyDave]

I would not burn used oil in my tractor.

The reason is different than the life of the tractor. The problem is that used oils have heavy metals in them from bearing wear. Burn this in a diesel, and the heavy metals come right out the exhaust. Lead and other similar things are not good for you and are especially bad for children.

Mt family is worth more than saving a few $ by burning used oil.

 

[Soundguy]

My tractor is just plain too expensive to burn 'waste' oil in.

If it could be affordable re-refined and burned.. with all the contaminates removed.. maybee.. but a home rig to do this is probably still letting parts of the add package thru.. plus, maybee.. water disolved heavy metals.... etc.

If i was in a cold area.. maybee a waste oil burning stove..

if I had a steam engine with an oil dripper/burner.. yes..

soundguy

 

[john_bud]

I would not burn used oil in my tractor.

The reason is different than the life of the tractor. The problem is that used oils have heavy metals in them from bearing wear. Burn this in a diesel, and the heavy metals come right out the exhaust. Lead and other similar things are not good for you and are especially bad for children.

Mt family is worth more than saving a few $ by burning used oil.

As I understand it, the lead layer (actually a complex layer of lead and often indium) is very thin. On the order of 1/1000th of an inch or 25 microns. If you go fishing with the kids and they put on a sinker, they will be getting more lead in them than there is in gallons and gallons of used oil.

Again, I don't burn used oil. The cost savings just are not there for me with my small use and limited used oil supply.

 

[LBrown59]

I burn it on brush piles.

 

[RalphVa]

I had some leftover Type A auto transmission fluid that I put some both in my tractor and my old Benz diesel. Transmission fluid is in the boiling range next higher than most diesels and is often included (in the refinery) into the diesel pool, as long as they make final boiling point, smoke point, etc. specs. So, putting a little bit of auto transmission fluid (and presumably UDT) into your diesel should be no problem. The Mercedes Star, many years ago, used to have people writing in it recommending a quart of auto transmission fluid in the diesel tank every so often.

Ralph

 

[California]

... Transmission fluid is in the boiling range next higher than most diesels and is often included (in the refinery) into the diesel pool, as long as they make final boiling point, smoke point, etc. specs. So, putting a little bit of auto transmission fluid (and presumably UDT) into your diesel should be no problem.

Ralph, anybody, does JD303 tractor fluid also meet those ATF specs? And does it accumulate harmful stuff, lead etc, while in use?

 

[Soundguy]

Metals it will entrail will be dependent on the bearing materials used.. It at least won't have combustion by-products in it.

If it has brass or bronze in it.. I'd look at the MSDS anyway..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

New clean leftover atf is alot different vs waste oil.

I've heard of adding clean atf oil to diesl for a long time now... that wouldn't bother me compaired to dumping cruddy engine drainings intot he tank of my multi-thousand dollar tractor...

soudnguy

I had some leftover Type A auto transmission fluid that I put some both in my tractor and my old Benz diesel. Transmission fluid is in the boiling range next higher than most diesels and is often included (in the refinery) into the diesel pool, as long as they make final boiling point, smoke point, etc. specs. So, putting a little bit of auto transmission fluid (and presumably UDT) into your diesel should be no problem. The Mercedes Star, many years ago, used to have people writing in it recommending a quart of auto transmission fluid in the diesel tank every so often.

Ralph

 

[RalphVa]

I don't know for sure what tractor tranny fluid is. I know the lo vis stuff I buy for my CUT 4010 is pretty thin, much like auto transmission fluid. I'd certainly run it through a filter before mixing with diesel. Wouldn't use more than a quart per tankful either.

Auto transmission fluid is technically a 5 grade that gets refined in lube oil processing to a 0 to 5 grade. It starts life as, what we call in the trade, as 100N distillate. By comparison, a 10w oil starts life as a 150N distillate off the pipe stills. When we didn't need 0 to 5 grade, that 100N distillate got dumped into the diesel pool. The 10w oil plus about 20% additive can be made into a 10w30 to 10w40 oil for sale as engine lube.

Auto transmission fluid is very highly refined and generally has little additives, even from a dino source. If the tractor transmission fluid is essentially the same (and it appears to be on pouring; I've never seen side-by-side specs), it won't have many additives to worry about that could contaminate the diesel.

Ralph

 

[Soundguy]

Any idea what the extreme pressure addatives inthe utf are?

soundguy

 

[DieselPower]

Even if the oil is new I don't recommend it. New ATF oil has a additive package made up of at least:
Dispersants
Antioxidants
Antiwear
Friction modifier
Copper deactivator
Corrosion inhibitor
Seal swell agent
Viscosity Improver
Pour Point Depressant
Foam inhibitor
Red dye in most ATF's

Which one of these do you want in your injection system? Me personally, none of them. Especially in modern diesel engines the tolerances in fuel injectors are measured in fractions of a micron. It takes very little to start to build up a deposit in them that starts to effect performance.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The best use for used oil is wood treatment to keep the bugs out and waterproofing. Works really well on trailer wood and corral fences although it is a little hard on clothes when rubbed against them. Other uses is like LB said, makes good accelerant for starting brush fires.
I will pay the price for diesel rather than take the chance on messing up my tractor engine. Even a clogged filter or injector is too much aggravation for me to take a chance on running used oil in my fuel tank. If someone wants to run that kind of gunk, get themselves an old military multi-fuel engine. Then if you can stuff it in the tank, it will likely run otherwise stick to the stuff the tractor was designed to burn IE. Super clean #2 fuel oil AKA diesel.

 

[California]

... stick to the stuff the tractor was designed to burn IE. Super clean #2 fuel oil AKA diesel.

I think the older ones weren't so picky. My operation manual says

For maximum filter life, sediment and water should not exceed 0.10 percent.

That's a huge amount of crud, one part per thousand, more than a half ounce of crud in every 5 gallon refueling. I've never seen fuel that bad but whoever designed this fuel system anticipated that its out there somewhere.

 

[Soundguy]

The best use for used oil is wood treatment to keep the bugs out and waterproofing. Works really well on trailer wood and corral fences although it is a little hard on clothes when rubbed against them. Other uses is like LB said, makes good accelerant for starting brush fires. .

Remember.. waste oil has lots of nice things in it.. like heavy metals.. those things can leach out into the environment. You still drink water? Your kids?

Just because you can do something.. doesn't mean you should.

soundguy