busted hydrological pipe

domains · Dec 19, 2014

Hi... In a mess again, foton 25hp, Leaking hydrological pipe inback of pump(fixed), i only noticed because blower would lift jerking and have to turn 1\2 turn to steer

I added 2 gallons of fluid and drove it 3 hours opening the driveway and no improvement, Do i have to bleed system? or pump is done?

the steering is hydrologic so do i have to get air out of cylinders?

thanks for any help

RonMar · Dec 19, 2014

IF the system is drawing clear fluid from the reservoir without any air, the system should self purge just by cycling all the hydraulic functions. Any air in the system will be forced back to the reservoir as it is replaced by fluid without air. IF it is still acting jerky, you are still sucking in air at some point along the suction path. Or the pump housing is leaking/cracked and allowing air into the suction side...

UUUH opening the driveway? Are you working in the snow? What hydraulic fluid are you using? If it is UTF or some such, it may not be liking the cold. Cold fluid dosn't suck very well and any leaks in the suction side would really stand out trying to draw cold fluid... Like trying to drink a soda thru a straw with a hole in it

Do you have a suction line filter along the supply line to the pump(spin on cartridge hydraulic filter)? This being cold would not help either. If you are working in the cold, what engine temp are you running? My Jinma 254 runs real cold in the winter. I hang a towel over and block 3/4 of the radiator surface to get the engine to full/normal op temp. Unless you are working the hydraulics really hard, and most tractors do not(I never have) a cold tractor will take any heat generated thru loading the hydraulic system right back out of the fluid. The pump getting warm from the engine at full op temp may help get the hydraulic fluid a little warmer.

domains · Dec 21, 2014

RonMar said:
IF the system is drawing clear fluid from the reservoir without any air, the system should self purge just by cycling all the hydraulic functions. Any air in the system will be forced back to the reservoir as it is replaced by fluid without air. IF it is still acting jerky, you are still sucking in air at some point along the suction path. Or the pump housing is leaking/cracked and allowing air into the suction side...

UUUH opening the driveway? Are you working in the snow? What hydraulic fluid are you using? If it is UTF or some such, it may not be liking the cold. Cold fluid dosn't suck very well and any leaks in the suction side would really stand out trying to draw cold fluid... Like trying to drink a soda thru a straw with a hole in it Do you have a suction line filter along the supply line to the pump(spin on cartridge hydraulic filter)? This being cold would not help either. If you are working in the cold, what engine temp are you running? My Jinma 254 runs real cold in the winter. I hang a towel over and block 3/4 of the radiator surface to get the engine to full/normal op temp. Unless you are working the hydraulics really hard, and most tractors do not(I never have) a cold tractor will take any heat generated thru loading the hydraulic system right back out of the fluid. The pump getting warm from the engine at full op temp may help get the hydraulic fluid a little warmer.

hi Tractor is from Canada

sorry for confusion, I'm thinking frozen ice in hydraulic filter but if i take it off i make a air pocket going to pump, I'm new to this, is there a trick to prime pipe going to the pump? Going to heat up the garage a few hours and use a hairdryer. but kinda scared of taking filter off, its a 5 year old tractor never took off before

RonMar · Dec 21, 2014

There shouldn't be a problem with removing the filter. As long as there is oil in the pump it should be able to pull oil thru from the sump, provided there are NO air leaks in the suction pipe and the oil is thin enough. There is usually a pipe union on the suction line up near the sump tank. That is a possible source of air in the system so you need to make sure that union is tight. If it has the spin on filter cartridge down below the gas pedal area, and the system is tight(and full), the fluid may siphon out of the sump all by itself. If you have the union back by the sump and it is alowing air in the system, it probably won't siphon. You also need to check the fittings at the filter cartridge and the filter is spun on hand tight. Also check the fitting where it meets the pump...

Your symptoms lead me to believe an air leak or fluid thickness is the issue at the cold temperatures. You should be using at least AW-32 hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic system(or perhaps thinner if it is really cold where you are). These tractors usually ship from China with a universal tractor oil in them in ALL the systems. The problem with UTF is it is really a little light to be used in the gearbox, and a little too heavy to be used in the hydraulics. When cold this is really the case with the hydraulic system. This thick oil will cause the slightest leak to admit air and cause cavitation in the pump(howling/growling in the pump when under load) and jerky operation of the system as the air works thru. Cavitation in the pump causes erosion of the pump body and will ultimately kill it. Some dealers/assemblers/importers change out all the chinese fluids when they prep the tractor for sale, some do not... If it dosn't have hydraulic fluid in it, I would reccomend you drain out what it does have and replace it with AW32 or whatever is appropriate for your area.

kevin37b · Dec 22, 2014

RonMar said:
There shouldn't be a problem with removing the filter. As long as there is oil in the pump it should be able to pull oil thru from the sump, provided there are NO air leaks in the suction pipe and the oil is thin enough. There is usually a pipe union on the suction line up near the sump tank. That is a possible source of air in the system so you need to make sure that union is tight. If it has the spin on filter cartridge down below the gas pedal area, and the system is tight(and full), the fluid may siphon out of the sump all by itself. If you have the union back by the sump and it is alowing air in the system, it probably won't siphon. You also need to check the fittings at the filter cartridge and the filter is spun on hand tight. Also check the fitting where it meets the pump...

Your symptoms lead me to believe an air leak or fluid thickness is the issue at the cold temperatures. You should be using at least AW-32 hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic system(or perhaps thinner if it is really cold where you are). These tractors usually ship from China with a universal tractor oil in them in ALL the systems. The problem with UTF is it is really a little light to be used in the gearbox, and a little too heavy to be used in the hydraulics. When cold this is really the case with the hydraulic system. This thick oil will cause the slightest leak to admit air and cause cavitation in the pump(howling/growling in the pump when under load) and jerky operation of the system as the air works thru. Cavitation in the pump causes erosion of the pump body and will ultimately kill it. Some dealers/assemblers/importers change out all the chinese fluids when they prep the tractor for sale, some do not... If it dosn't have hydraulic fluid in it, I would reccomend you drain out what it does have and replace it with AW32 or whatever is appropriate for your area.

You know what you are talking about . A fine diagnostic explanation .

domains · Dec 23, 2014

Drained oil filter and even primmed it and now can't even steer or lift blower

Are you saying a empty new pump will bleed itself?

gravity almost fills the pump only missing about 4 inches and it does not stop flowing

now that i grained oil filter nothing works

My father is dying of cancer and his driveways needs to be open, and no one else has a tractor where i live

so your saying a new pump will bleed itself even if filled with air?

Soundguy · Dec 23, 2014

Side note, leaking like, and this air sick ng possibility.. any chance there is a qd not correctly seated, it could impeded flow and perhaps introduce air, as well as other issues.. although cavitating thick oil could surely be the issue too.

domains · Dec 23, 2014

Bought new maybe 68 oil, no issues for 4 years, bought 32 oil with no ice in filter

i should of invested 20 more thousand for a real tractor

paid 18 tho for this junk

no time to list allthe issues

just converted it to alternator after invested 400 just to try to fix charging issue

now i have this issue

other dealer told me these tractors only last a few year

should of bought a kubata

RonMar · Dec 23, 2014

Sorry for your troubles. Yes a pump with a little oil in(impellar is wet) it should be able to pull oil from the sump/reservoir. provided theare NO air leaks in that pipe to the reservoir. If you are leaking air anyplace it will pull air in long before it pulls hydraulic fluid thru the pipe.

Do you have compressed air available in your shop/garage? If so loosen the hydraulic fitting at the inlet to the hydraulic pump. Apply compressed air to the air vent on the reservoir with a blowgun. The vent is usually in the filler cap. A rubber tipped air blowgun will usually seal on that air vent hole. A little air pressure on top of the hydraulic fluid in the reservoir should force fluid thru the pipe and filter to the pump and out the fitting you loosened at the pump. Once you get fluid out that losened fitting, re-tighten the fitting and start the tractor. No real priming needed if the pipe and filter are already completely full...
Good Luck.

domains · Jan 2, 2015

RonMar said:
Sorry for your troubles. Yes a pump with a little oil in(impellar is wet) it should be able to pull oil from the sump/reservoir. provided theare NO air leaks in that pipe to the reservoir. If you are leaking air anyplace it will pull air in long before it pulls hydraulic fluid thru the pipe.

Do you have compressed air available in your shop/garage? If so loosen the hydraulic fitting at the inlet to the hydraulic pump. Apply compressed air to the air vent on the reservoir with a blowgun. The vent is usually in the filler cap. A rubber tipped air blowgun will usually seal on that air vent hole. A little air pressure on top of the hydraulic fluid in the reservoir should force fluid thru the pipe and filter to the pump and out the fitting you loosened at the pump. Once you get fluid out that losened fitting, re-tighten the fitting and start the tractor. No real priming needed if the pipe and filter are already completely full...
Good Luck.

Bought a 1980 international 64hp with only 2500 hours on it, We tryed blowing air in tank and pump only spits, even primed with a small funnel no affect. Someone told me maybe I blew the front pump seal and it would fill my motors oil but checked and oil level is fine.

how can i be sure its the pump, plus a pump is probably pricy, to get the pump off i need to pull off the crank balancer with a puller