Buying 1736 - Concern Regarding Tier IV

[bacononeactual]

I was about to pull the trigger on a 1736. However, I have some concern about something I read somewhere about the regen process.

By way of background, my wife will use the tractor daily - basically as a glorified wheelbarrow - to clean stalls and dump manure from the loader into a dumpster (we have off-site manure management). In terms of run time, this will entail about 2-5 minutes to run out to the barn and 2-5 minutes to dump the loader and drive back to the house. In other words, short runs daily. I will use the tractor on the weekends or at nights (possibly once a week) to mow pasture or drag a riding ring, and I will use it for longer time periods in the winter to move snow. This will entail longer run times.

My concern is that I have read that 45-minute regen is required of the Tier IV equipment and that short runs may make this regen required more frequently. There is also the issue that if the regen is required all the time, she can't very well leave the tractor running in the driveway for an hour. Aside from being fuel inefficient, I see that as being very inconvenient. So, my questions is this: how often is this regen required? If this is a once a month kind of thing, I will deal with it. If it's a once a week kind of thing, I think that I need to find a different tractor.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help with this question. (As an aside, I realize that short runs aren't ideal for diesel engines anyway, but I cant really do anything about that.)

 

[MO MF Dealer]

The best explanation is in the Operators Manual which I have attached the pages on DPF Regen. It can automatically do Regen or can be Manually Regen. Low Exhaust Temperature reduces the amount of NOx Gases but increases the Particulate Matter. Particulate Matter is what the DPF is catching and keeping from entering the environment. Lower RPM Speeds and Idling will reduce the time between regens. If you are excessively idling the tractor you turn off the engine will increase the time before a regen is needed. Automatic Regen can happen while you are working to burn the soot out of the DPF. Only the Manual REgen requires the tractor to be stopped and takes between 15 and 40 Minutes depending on the level of soot in the DPF. You can force a Manual Regen which can be done at the end of the day or before you begin to work so your not regening while your working. Depending on hours you are putting on your tractor and how you operate the tractor will determine the regen frequency. Talking with owners of High Horsepower Tractors with Regen features they may run the tractor 10+ hours a day and see weekly Regen when using for low load applications. I think with a compact tractor and the low number of hours a year compared to high horsepower tractors you will see reduced frequency of Regen.

Below are the two pages from the Operators Manual and a Chart Showing the Reduction of NOx Gases and Particulate Matter that is helping clean the air.

 

[bacononeactual]

MO MF - Thank you so much for your post. This is helpful. Two questions:

As I understand your post, high horsepower users are seeing regen every 50-70 hours or so. If short run times/idle speeds mean that we would need to regen twice as often (i.e., every 25 or 35 hours), then that would be okay with me, because that would mean that if the tractor is used 1/2 hour a day (or 15 hours a month total), then we would only need the regen once every couple of months. Is this a reasonable conclusion, or am I way off?

If the tractor is in a regen mode while I am cutting grass or snowplowing or something, and it is turned off, does it have to start over? Or does it reduce the particulate level such that it does not then need to regen again for some time.

If any other 1700 series users have any practical experience with this also, that would be helpful. Perhaps I am making a bigger deal out of this than it is. I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on a new tractor and wind up with a huge hassle having to leave the tractor running in the driveway all the time.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

So glad I bought a 1643 to avoid this mess.

 

[bacononeactual]

So glad I bought a 1643 to avoid this mess.

I would too if I could find one. ...but I keep hoping that it's not really that bad and that I'm making a big deal out of nothing.

 

[MO MF Dealer]

The technology has been used for years in Diesel Pickups, Over the Road Semi Trucks, and Many other Tractor Manufacturers for many years. It's not new technology and what many manufacturers used to meet Tier 3 and Tier 4 Interim Standards. Most compact owners don't put the hours on tractors like larger models so the frequency is going to be a lot less and it's much cheaper that other technology to meet emissions ratings and probably the simplest solution to meeting Tier IV Final Ratings without increasing costs significantly.

Caterpillar Video on use in Over the Road Trucks since 2007

I own a Chevrolet DuraMax Pickup and has Diesel Particulate Filter and never know when it's Regening.

 

[MO MF Dealer]

MO MF - Thank you so much for your post. This is helpful. Two questions:

As I understand your post, high horsepower users are seeing regen every 50-70 hours or so. If short run times/idle speeds mean that we would need to regen twice as often (i.e., every 25 or 35 hours), then that would be okay with me, because that would mean that if the tractor is used 1/2 hour a day (or 15 hours a month total), then we would only need the regen once every couple of months. Is this a reasonable conclusion, or am I way off?

If the tractor is in a regen mode while I am cutting grass or snowplowing or something, and it is turned off, does it have to start over? Or does it reduce the particulate level such that it does not then need to regen again for some time.

If any other 1700 series users have any practical experience with this also, that would be helpful. Perhaps I am making a bigger deal out of this than it is. I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on a new tractor and wind up with a huge hassle having to leave the tractor running in the driveway all the time.

The other thing you have to figure in is volume of diesel fuel high horsepower tractors burn per hour...many burn 10 to 20 Gallons Per Hour in High Horsepower Tractors most compacts are in the 1 to 3 Gallon Per Hour under Max RPM and Max Load you see these fuel consumption data like Nebraska Test Lab Reports. Compacts are excluded from this testing requirement to sell tractors in the state of Nebraska.

The Regen length is going to be based on the amount of suit in the DPF that is why they state 15 to 40 minutes. 40 Minutes are going to be for the most severe cases. I personally like the option Massey offers to allow the operator to perform a Manual Regen when soot levels rise to the need for DPF to be cleaned. That way you can perform it in a non-use time frame and not have to worry about doing it when you need the tractor. The Display will show the Soot Level on the Display. If it's getting at a high level you can perform a Regen when it works best for you and not interrupt you performing the task. Most are going to be like my DuraMax Diesel that has a DPF and SCR Technology...I never know it happens because it's automatic.

 

[MO MF Dealer]

The important thing to remember is when you are buying a tractor no matter which brand it is or model. You need to ask your Salesperson about Exhaust System Maintenance and how it is going to effect you. I have been very open with all my customers educating them on how all the technologies work. They need to know the expenses and maintenance requirements that they will encounter. With Massey Ferguson we offer a wide variety of Exhaust Emission Technologies from Diesel Exhaust Filters to Exhaust Gas Recirculation to Selective Catalyst Reduction. Each has it benefits but I look at Massey Fergusons direction to provide solutions to meeting the Emission Regulations is they are providing the Most Cost Effective and Best Performance for each series. But you as a buyer need to learn and understand each system and what it will cost you in maintenance costs....a cheaper initial cost for the tractor may cost you more in exhaust maintenance than a higher cost tractor with a simpler maintenance system. The cost for DPF is a little diesel fuel and at approximately 3,000 Hours the DPF will need to be replace or cleaned. How many years will it take you to put 3,000 Hours on your Compact Tractor?

 

[bacononeactual]

3000 hours would take me many years of use. I'm not concerned about the expense, which as you point out should be minimal, only the hassle and reliability issues - if any - associated with the regen. I do appreciate the information and you taking the time to reply. I will see if my local dealer can give me any additional info, although I would also appreciate it if any other 1700 owners could chime in as to their experience with the system in terms of how often they see the regen and whether or not it has been an inconvenience, and in particular if most of their use entails short runs. As an aside, I do think that the reduction in soot and odor could actually be a good feature that I will appreciate after living with my JD770 with vertical stack blowing exhaust in my face for the last few years (although the cab should solve that problem nicely also).

 

[jd870]

So glad I am buying a new MF1529.