buying decision-PT-1445/1460, PT-1845/1850, other?

[whiterabbit]

I own 20 acres of steep mountainous property in Santa Cruz, CA. I have been researching what tractor to buy for months including reading many of the power-trac posts here. Currently, I am thinking a PT-1445 or PT-1460 would be a good choice for my needs (or possibly PT-1845 or 1850), so any feedback is appreciated. Also, I can't find any of these machines used (would like to spend under $20k with attachments), so any leads on used ones would be great too. Been checking the PT website.

I am building a house, and then need a machine to maintain the land, as well as rock/grade and maintain drainage ditches for a mile or more of logging roads. Many of the logging roads are pretty steep up to 28% grade (up down) on the road. I also need to cut a pad for my house, dig septic (can rent backhoe), clear brush/trees/roots, landscaping, cut driveway, build terraces, dig water/gas lines, etc. I also want to be able to cut & maintain ATV trails in the woods on steep terrain (up to 100% slopes, but will stay on mostly less than 30%). I have minimal mowing, maybe 1 acre 4 times a year and sides of the roads.

Here's some pics (these aren't steepest areas - don't have pics of those, but gives some idea):
http://www.pbase.com/jasonmaher/image/31291660
http://www.pbase.com/jasonmaher/image/31291656
http://www.pbase.com/jasonmaher/white_rock&page=all

Questions:
Are the PT-1445/1460 pretty stable on slopes and up to what grade? Can you put the double wheels on them like the 1845/1850? I think because I have more construction/road work and less mowing, I would be better with a 1445/1460, but the slope stability of the 1845/1850 is appealing. Which is best suited for my needs?

How good is the traction on PTs in dirt/mud ? Anybody used larger ag tires on PTs?

Also - can anyone comment on how well a front mounted grader works on these PTs? I've read posts on the smaller PTs lifting up while grading and having to use weights on the grader box. I have a lot of road grading work so I'm a little concerned how well a PT will grade compared to a standard CUT with rear 3 point.

 

[SnowRidge]

Beautiful area. I spent quite a bit of time there, many years ago.

I can't speak regarding the bigger diesel PTs, but FWIW, my PT-425 operates quite well on comparable wooded slopes at the back of my property. It has turf tires and can still go just about anywhere I would expect an ATV to go, as long as it can fit between the trees.

I will take my PT, with its turf tires, into wet areas where I wouldn't dare take my Branson CUT. I haven't stuck it yet.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

I can't comment on the 1445 or 1460, since I have only seen them at the factory. My 1845 is a bit smaller and lighter than either, and does not have the lift capacity. I suspect that it will do everything you need, however, except the heavy grading and digging, where I think you'll probably have to rent a dozer and backhoe for a short time even if you get the 1460.
I wouldn't plan on using any of them on a true 100% grade. The 1850 with duals is rated to mow that steep a place, but it needs a hill with good enough traction to hold the machine. It would be very hard to turn over, but sliding downhill isn't fun either.
The 1445 and 1460 have more powerful wheel motors and hydraulics than the 1845 & 1850, and come with tougher tires. I suspect you could put duals on, but you'd end up with a pretty wide machine.
I have had decent results grading with a 4 n 1 bucket, but I'm far from skilled. I don't have a box blade. One thing to look at is the power rake. A recent thread indicated it was pretty good at preparing roads/trails.

 

[whiterabbit]

thanks for the input!
Would I be better off to buy a smaller PT like 1430 and use the savings to hire a dozer for heavy dirt work? Also, the smaller PTs look to have a lower CG.

Although no dozer, it seems like the 1445 or 1460 would be pretty decent at moving moderate amounts of dirt which is why I was leaning towards those larger machines rather than 1430 and smaller. Is that an incorrect assumption? Will the smaller PTs work well for me? Don't really need to lift more, as much as I need to grade and push more dirt.

Anyone using PT smaller than 1445 for road maintenance ? Our road and ditch maintenance here is intensive since we have heavy, damaging rains every winter coming off the ocean and dumping on the mountains.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Sorry, I don't do enough road work to advise. Certailny, the 1445 and 1460 will out push the others. The 1430 will lift as much as the 1845 and 1850, but is lighter.

OK, PT users of box blades, 4 n i and/or power rake for road work, help the man out.

 

[Sedgewood]

<font color="red">OK, PT users of box blades, 4 n i and/or power rake for road work, help the man out. </font>

Ok, Charlie, I'll throw my two cents in. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'd go with the 1845.

Charlie's early posts on the forum sent me right off to Tazewell to get me an 1845 just like his. It's been the most useful tractor I've ever owned, hands down.

I have nearly a mile of roads and wood roads which I maintain with the 1845. In fact, I've even built from scratch a few hundred feet of light duty road with it using the Bush Hog SBX720 six foot box blade I adapted to the 1845. It's a little slow for moving huge amounts of dirt but for annual maintenance the box blade works quite well. In addition I use the small bucket to dig ditches and an 8ft landscape rake to clean them. And PT's 6 foot plow for snow removal.

Like Charlie, I have single wheels rather than the duals which gives me good maneuverability in the woods, far better than any cut. Traction is simply amazing. Some of the terrain I traverse while mowing etc is as steep as 30 degrees (not 30%) which is about as steep as I feel comfortable on (see attachment) with the single wheels. Beyond that there is too much side slip to say nothing of the pucker in my drawers /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As far as I can tell, whiterabbit, my terrain, both on the roads and in the woods, is at least as steep as yours and were I to replace my tractor, it would be with another 1845.

Sedgewood

 

[whiterabbit]

Great forum! All the support makes we want to buy a PT even more. They seem like great tractors, and seeing the support here, I don't worry so much about the lack of a local dealer. I'm actually surprised there's not more of these tractors in CA with all the vineyards on hillsides here. Anyone know if PT has ever considered a 2nd location closer to this coast? There is an Antonio Carraro dealer here that sells Italian slope tractors to alot of vineyards, but they cost considerably more $ than a PT, and have a PTO/3PT instead of quick attach. One nice thing they have is reversible steering column. Was quoted $27k new or $20k used (300 hrs) for a TTR 4400 HST which is only 35hp not including FEL which is another $4k. And the implements seem to cost 2x as much as PT. Here's a link to see what that is:
http://www.antoniocarraro.it/index.php?lang=en&areaid=3&menuid=12&countryid=638&useid=2&itemid=30

Sedgewood - sounds like we have a very similar application. One thing - I have very little grass to mow (mostly woods). By the looks of the pic you have some nice grass so probably more mowing than I have. Assuming you had almost no mowing, would you consider a 1445/1460 due to more weight, larger lift and wheel motors, etc? I think I read another post of yours that you added weight to the box grader also to cut into hard soil without lifting up the front end, so that's what got me thinking along those lines.

Guess to be sure I should plan a trip to Tazewell to see which one fits me best! Any comments on buying new versus used ? Leaning towards used, due to cost, but don't see any used to buy out there.

 

[Sedgewood]

<font color="red">Sedgewood - sounds like we have a very similar application. One thing - I have very little grass to mow (mostly woods). By the looks of the pic you have some nice grass so probably more mowing than I have. Assuming you had almost no mowing, would you consider a 1445/1460 due to more weight, larger lift and wheel motors, etc?</font>

Good point. The 28 degree grass you see is on my customer/neighbors property which I mow for him. He has several spots that steep, and steeper. In fact just down hill from that picture it goes to 30-32 degrees and the slip sliding begins. My property only has a few little spots that steep and if I weren't mowing for him I might very well consider the 1445 for its greater torque and heavier duty tires. My 1845 tires have seen many punctures in 700 hours and while the extra torque would be most useful at 30 degrees, there are times when digging or pulling the box blade that some more torque would be helpful. Yeah, I guess a 1445 would be a better choice if it will handle your slopes. PT introduced the 1445 back in '03, shortly after the fire ate my 1845. At the time I was considering the 1445 as a replacement for my totalled 1845 and put together this model comparison chart. Both models may have been upgraded since then but maybe it's still useful. As it turned out I was able to buy the hulk of the 1845 from the insurance company and rebuild it and didn't need a replacement.

<font color="red"> I think I read another post of yours that you added weight to the box grader also to cut into hard soil without lifting up the front end, so that's what got me thinking along those lines. </font>

Yeah, I tossed an old lumber wagon axle across the top. The added 200 lbs or so helps keep the box blade rippers ripping rather than hopping. Weight in a box blade is a good thing.

Sedgewood

 

[pajoube]

I like your idea of going to Tazewell, great time to test all the machines and meet some very fine people.
One thing you will not find very often and that is a used PowerTrac. We seem to keep them until we die or they die /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
My guess is that CA has more PowerTracs than we know about. Your job will be to keep your PowerTrac visible and get the word out. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif It is great fun to have people stop and ask you what that is. Even better is watching their eyes light up.
PJ

 

[SnowRidge]

Santa Cruz is a long way from Tazewell, but if you can swing it, it would be very informative. They used to offer a 2% discount if you attended their training there. You might be able to swing something like that combined with a "potential" buying trip.