Tractor Sizing Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots

   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #1  

vrenifossi

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Hi everybody,
I am new here and since my situation and questions are somewhat different from those in other threads I thought it might be better to open a new thread.
My wife and I moved from Germany to Chile some 15 years ago where we have two kids now. Over the years we bought three lots/plots in the south of Chile. The first is a 6 acre lot close to the city where we work and on which we built a house in which we live now. Half of that is tractorable, the rest is buildings, orchard, vegetable garden, green house, lawn and pond. On the tractorable half we have two horses and a stable. The second plot is a flat 13 acres light forest along a river and the third is a 45 acre, pretty hilly land at the coast of which an estimated 35 acres are dense and partially steep forest, 5 acres are open area (I would not call it grassland right now) and 5 acres are high brush (mainly goarse). Land and horses are extremely cheap in southern Chile and before we came here I would have never dreamed that I could ever own that much land...
Since I work like a free-lance I would love to dedicate half of my time to the properties, turning them into something and build some cabins that we could use ourselves and perhaps eventually rent out to sports fishers.

The first tasks would be building access ways to and on the properties, which would involve removal of brush, removal of some smaller trees and removing a few older stumps, scraping a track and building a little bridge over a small creek. On the coast property, this will need to be done also on slopes. Since on the river plot in very rainy winters the river may flood parts of the property for 1- max. 2 feet I would like to dig a decently sized trout pond and use the material for creating a 3 foot elevated level around the pond on which later a cabin could be placed. When that is done there will be fencing, cabin building, work in the woods for fire wood, removing goarse, creating decent meadows for the horses and making hay.

Since the plots are up to a day-trip apart from each other mobility is an important factor. I have a 2500 Silverado with a 2 ton dump trailer on which I could move around a tractor, but of course for easy handling and for budget reasons I want to keep everything as small and light as possible (the more I spend on machinery the longer we need to wait until we can afford the cabins...). On the other hand I want to accomplish something while working on the plots and I do not want to overstress the machines.

So where would be the sweet spot? There is no neighbors with machines I could ask, on the country side people either have cattle or sheep or do forestry work with oxes. Since Kubota and John Deere are both very present in Chile I would go with either of these brands with a slight preference for Kubota because of the universal quick attach ability on the FEL. But which size and model? I was thinking about a Kubota B2650 with FEL, bucket, grapple attachment and pallet forks for the FEL, BH77 backhoe with thumb (or better a Woods with hydraulic thumb?), a rear box blade and a post hole digger. Later I could add a skidding winch, a disk plow and a sickle bar mower. I was thinking that the skidding winch might already be handy earlier for removing stumps, small trees and goarse.

Since I will probably import the machine and accessories it might make sense to get as much as possible in a package to safe shipping and handling costs, but I have to see how far I get with the budget. But would a B2650 be up to the jobs at all? How does this machine behave on slopes? What would be a better choice without blowing my budget and/or losing mobility? Does anyone have similar conditions and tasks and/or could share some helpful experience?

Cheers,
Fossi
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #2  
I would think you need a bigger machine than you listed. A Kubota L47 would be a new model I would recommend. A used Kubota L45 or used Deere 110 would be my next choice. These tlb's have ssqa fels with about 2500+lbs, of lift, hydraulic options for front grapple, thumb and 3 front and 3 rear remotes. That is handy for an all in one machine. This is about the maximum size for a 3/4 ton truck but can get a lot done with this size.

I would hate to see you import a tractor that was too small to get the jobs done in a reasonable amount of time. Buying a small tractor with a hoe that doesn't have enough reach would be a mistake imo. Hard to get much done with a small compact like the B2650, it would take days to do what the above tractors will do in hours.
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #3  
As I was reading, I was thinking you need a D5 Cat bulldozer to handle the road building and pond digging...but then you want it to weigh the same as a compact auto. You are going to need a heavier machine than a sub-compact tractor.
You need the heaviest tractor you can transport. With a 3/4 truck, moving a 5000 lb machine is pretty easy. Utility tractors usually have about 50 hp by the time you get one that weighs 5000 (without the loader attached).
If Mahindra is an option there, their machines are usually heavier than similar sized competitors machines.
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #4  
A dilemma for sure. Up front it would seem a much larger piece of equipment would be required for the away jobs. If time is not critical then your choice will work. Just takes longer.

Consider a heavier framed tractor in the 30 - 35 HP range with a factory frame mount backhoe. The hoe will probably see a lot of use. An HST transmission is preferable.

My JD 4200 with hoe would just meet your needs. The next size up would be preferable. These models have been replaced with others. I've mentioned them only for a size/type reference. I'm not familiar with the similar Kubota models.
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #5  
At least in the US you can get John Deere Quick Attach | eBay to convert your JD Quick Attach to skid steer. So that at least would help if you like the JD more other than that issue.

It is a wonderful problem to have, owning more land than you thought possible!
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #6  
if you buy a new JD you can spec the carrier to be a SSQA one or the proprietary JDQA on some tractors you can get the global (Euro) QA. when i bought mine it was a $250 option. it did put the loader a few inches further out, which lowers the capacity slightly.
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots
  • Thread Starter
#7  
First of all many thanks to all!:)
Until july I will only have cell phone internet, so please excuse the delays in answering. I was overwhelmed by the amount of really helpfull answers that arrived within no time.
What all answers have somehow in common is that I need a bigger machine than a B2650 if I want to get the jobs done in a reasonable time. The towing capacity of my full size truck should not be the problem. I believe I have 3400 ponds of payload and 11000 pound of towing capacity. So the limiting factor would rather be my 2 ton trailer..

The "road building" part in my description might have sounded a little bit more demanding than it actually is. I want and can find tracks to and through the properties which require removal of only comparable few smaller trees and stumps. The scraping means removal of the organic top soil to avoid mud in winter which also should be possible without too much hp.

I aggree that the backhoe will be a much used device and the ability of a decently sized BH is a strong argument for a larger tractor. I like the hydraulic thumb option on the 9 feet BH for the L47. I was not aware that John Deere also offers universal quick attach possibility for the loader. That increases my options. Actually, if it is about larger tractors there is even a decent second hand market in Chile especially for JD. On the other hand good priced things in good shape are hard to find in Chile and the attachments I want are not very common in Chile neither, which might require an importation anyway. And if available at all it generally is significantly more expensive than importing things plus without experience it will be difficult for me to evaluate the shape of a used tractor anyway. The other reason that makes importation more attractive is that the dealer mounted backhoe frame may be very difficult to get in Chile.

I had a look a t the L4701. Nice machine and looks pretty heavy duty. But it definitely plays in another price league as well. I also had a look on the john Deere models but since I have mainly been looking for Kubota so far I have hard time to decide which JD model might fit. The 4200 seems to be comparable to the B2650. I guess comparable models have comparable prices between these two brands? I never thought about Mahindra, but since the Mahindra Pick-ups are pretty popular here I suppose Mahindra tractors should also be available. On the other hand the Mahindra Pick-up trucks are not that good quality...Are the tractors better?
I noticed that L47 packages always include a mower no matter which dealer they are from. Why is that? Do you believe this is negotiable? Any recommendation for a dealer who offers packages? Preferably close to a larger port...
If I go on the Kubota web site the L47 offers a lot of options of most of which I have no idea if they would be usefull for me, starting from the front bucket type and ending with the rear valves. I have read that some people recommend at least one floating valve for a dump trailer and draft control for the box scaraper. Is this commonly aggreed on? I noticed that hydraulic thumb and quick attach bucket for the backhoe are mutually exclusive. How long does it take to change a direct pin attached bucket? I ask because it might be usefull to switch between bucket and ripper while undigging a stump.

Since I will need to safe a little bit longer to afford a larger tractor, that will give me more time to search the net and read and ask in this forum...I hope you will be patient with a newbie like me.

Cheers,
Gunter
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #8  
You are well aware of your working conditions. The shopping and decision making can be aggravating or really enjoyable. Become familiar with your local and international suppliers. Have patience. There will always be another tractor. Don't fill the plate with more than can be eaten. ie., larger may be nice but not really required.

Do consider the frame mounted backhoe a must.

I should not really comment on make but make sure that a local source/route of parts is available.
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #9  
You really need to find a source for a low hour John Deere 110TLB ($30,000 USD?)
It is likely the closest match that will fit all your needs.
A low hour JD 110TLB will likely last you for the rest of your life!
If you do buy the B2650, you will be making an expensive mistake, and will be looking for a second (larger) tractor within a year.
DO NOT make the classic mistake of buying too small (NO B2650)!
 
   / Buying my first tractor for work on three distant and very different plots #10  
Hi vrenifossi

As others have stated I think either the JD 110, a used Kubota L45 or a new Kubota L47 would be good choices to meet your requirements. One advantage that Kubota offers is you can add any missing options to a L45 or L47 later however from what I have read the 110 had to have additional options factory installed and there are no kits to add them later.

You state that you can't have a hydraulic thumb on the L47 and quick attach hoe buckets but that is not correct. I have the hydraulic thumb on my L45 and I have QA buckets and I just checked the build your own on the Kubota site and the L47 offers a thumb with either QA or pin on buckets. If you are going to remove stumps as well as trees I would recommend you get the hoe ripper for whichever machine you use. A ripper is much more flexible when trying to feel around and rip out roots and will also cut them more effectively than a bucket.

Good luck with your decision.

Regards,

Lauren
 

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