Buying my first tractor.....need help

[Jerod_Kitchel]

Hi, I'm looking at a 1985 Ford 1510 with a front loader and box scraper. This tractor has 3000+ hrs on a 3 cyl diesel. Couple of questions.
1. Does this seem like an excessive number of hours? At what point does a diesel need a rebuild?
2. After further research it looks like this tractor was manufactured by Shibaura, which is a gray market tractor brought over from Japan. Should I just go forward with the gray market tractors to save a few bucks?

I'm torn on what to do as this Ford is a one owner tractor where as the gray markets is a mystery to me.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[kayssupply]

You probably will get more tractor with much less hours for less money in a Grey, but the security of a US model is always a concern. The Shibs I have had were excellent machines. Your location is also an issue. There just aren't places to get good Greys everywhere.

 

[songhunter]

Kitchel,
In my opinion, your choice should be based on the use you plan for your tractor. If you are looking for a tractor that you must depend on, I would look toward selecting from a major brand that had parts available near you. Although some grey market tractors are dependable, everything eventually breaks and needs repair. Some parts for greys have to come from Japan. I believe Corriher and Sweet (both advertise on this forum) give a rating system for grey parts availability.

There is also the safety issue with the greys. Does the grey have ROPS (roll over protection)? I would not buy any tractor without it. Does the grey have an overrun clutch? That is a must if you plan to use the PTO.

On the subject of the Ford you mentioned, that is a substantial amount of hours for that size diesel engine. However, if it has been cared for and run well (no blowby or difficulty in starting), you could probably get as much as another 1,000 hours out of it before it needs a rebuild. The engine is not the only consideration, though. What is the condition of the clutch or, if it's a hydro, how strong is the hydro? If the tractor needs a clutch or hydro rebuild that could be more cost than an engine rebuild. But that could be true of a tractor with fewer hours if it were not maintained or operated correctly.

Unless you have a real good deal on the Ford, I'd look around a little more. CUT prices are pretty low in this area now (out of season). You may be able to get a really good deal on a later model tractor that has a parts dealer near you.

Just my 2 cents. Hope all goes well!

 

[Soundguy]

First... If it IS a ford 1510.. then it is a ford.. Shib.. just made either the engine ( or the whole tractor for some models.. etc ). All the NH's right now are shib's.. etc.

Like you've heard.. your price ranges as follows.... new 'big three' domestic models will be the highest price, and more or less best parts / labor support via the dealer.

Used domestic models range from almost new to cheap.. depends on model and condition.

Antiques fall in that category too. Sometimes you can pick up a deal on older iron. Just depends on what your uses are.

Older iron ranges from -no- parts / dealer support to fairly decent support depending ont he make / model.

For instance.. ford N models have excelent parts support, while some of the orphan model tractors have next to nothing.

Then comes grey market tractors. Also lots of hp per dolalr compaired to domestic units. Depending on the model, I believe many were ahead of their time in engineering.. for instance.. Yanmar.. good tractors..

Parts support is a bit soft on the grey's. Many dealers that support similar domestic models turn a blind eye to the grey's. For example.. there were domestic model yanmars.. and it is common knowledge that JD compacts use yanmar engines... even so.. Don't think you will walk into a JD store and ask for parts for your grey yanmar.. they'll laugh. Same with Kubota grey units...

If you buy grey.. research the model, see if there are dealers to get parts from, and check to see if there are any special problems with that model.. for instance.. some of the smaller yanmar 4wd models are very hard to get front drive parts for...

Next would be imported units for our us market.. like the korean models, indian models, and chineese. ( Mahindra, Jinma.. etc )

The indian mahindra are solid.. very IH / case in appearance.. though are priced almost as high as domestic models.

Jinma is chineese.. and while I feel their technology is still inferior to well.. most everybodies else's tractors.. they have finally reached a usefull level ( in my opinion ). Their fit / finish leaves a bit to be desired, and it has been talked about that many of thier fasteners / nuts / bolts might need to be replaced, etc. Their castings do not have as good metalurgy.. so are bigger to make up for it... these are all trade-offs, though, as the price makes them attractoive. For instance.. a 20hp jinma is in the 3000 dollar range.. depending ont he dealer.. there may be some warranty with that too.. For non-commercial light / medium duty work.. I wouldn't mind a jinma. I've test drove a few, and figure if I ever need another small new tractor, they will get an honest chance in my purchase plans.

As with ANY tractor.. foreigh or domestic. Don't just look at the hours... While it is a good indication of time in use.. it doesn't show maintenance and care... the tractor itself will be self evident.

Look for repairs.. are they shoddy bandaid repairs, or functional repairs.. or good repairs.
Does it leak ( almost all tractors will drip a drop here and there.. no big deal ).. it is the ones where the engine is black shinny and gritty / dusty that you worry about.

Look for things that are about to fail.. and figure what they will cost to replace. For instance.. if a rear tire is flat / or bald.. figure what it will cost you to replace. For instance.. a 16.9-24 big flotation turf tire and tube runs around $480 installed..

Also beware of steam clean or fresh paint jobs... fresh paint hides alot of things.

Look at the air filter, or oil bath for the air filter. Look at the engine oil.. see if it is low... ( if it is .. chances are that is how the previous owner always maintains it). Check for emulsion... which would be water in the oil.
Also look at the radiator fluid.. check for oil. A drop or two is no big deal.. might be left over from an old rebuild... any more than that and might be an issue.

Check the condition of the rims... rusted rims make for a good bit of work to repalce.

Check steering linkages, and see how much play their is.. clutch ( or hydro trans )... check for smooth operation in all gears / ranges.

Listen for odd sounds, etc .. check engine at all ranges.. look for stumbling / rough idle hesitation, etc ( ping / knock ).

How well does it start? smoke alot? Was it could when you looked at it and tried to start it? ( best ).. or was it warmed ( some times a tractor starts better warmed up.. so the previous owner warms it to make it start better.. so it will sell... etc.

If it has hyds'.. check them.

Do alot of research, look at alot of tractors... have fun

good luck

Soundguy

 

[jinman]

All very good advice, Soundguy. Not anything to add; I think you covered it all. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Tractors4u]

Congrats on deciding to buy a tractor. You do know that tractors are like kids and that once you have one you will want to buy everything under the sun for them!!! The best advice I can give you is buy a tractor you are comfortable with. These compact tractors are very dependable and if you take care of it, it will probably trouble free and outlast you. Grey market tractors are great bargains but if you have never been around a tractor they may not be the best for you unless you have a dedicated tractor mechanic that will work on it for you. In my 7 years of grey market tractor experience I have never had any kind of catastrophic failure. There are a lot more resources out there today for those tractors than there were when I started. Like Reed said, you can get a lot of tractor for the money with a grey. Once you buy a tractor though, don't look at any more prices because you will always find a better deal once you buy one. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Jerod_Kitchel]

Well folks I'm off to look at my first greys tomorrow. I want to see the tractor in person and hear them operate. The Yanmars will most likely be my focus, but the dealer keeps raving about the Iseki he has on hand. I know that I want 4wd, about 20+/-hp, front loader, 3 point hitch, full PTO and preferably shuttle shift. What's the resale value on these? I would imagine that within 10yrs I'll be ready for something newer. I have not really seen any listings on these from a private owner. That's one of two things, people are hanging on to these or they are not popular in my area.

 

[art]

AS a dealer and having sold compacts for over twenty years I will tell you I do not look forward to going back to those days before we had Kubota. I remember waiting for a rear end housing for 4 months from a major! They kept blaming the manufacturer! I like dealing direct with a company as there are no middle men, nobody else to blame it on!

 

[pruntyc]

You have a real good Dealer in Richland, WA. name EFC. Buck would give you a honest deal and if you ever need service you could get it there and parts also if needed. I know that is quite a ways to go, but to find a dealer that is honest, I think its worth it. Like anything else, not all dealers will tell you the truth and treat you right. I am sure Buck would, I have never heard anything bad about him. And I live in MS, and have never met him, but have talked to him on the phone. I went over 200 miles to get my Yanmar, and got a good deal and a good tractor, so to me, its worth going a ways if you don't have a good dealer close to home.

 

[kayssupply]

The Greys I have resold for customers brought what they paid less tax. They were all in the same shape they bought them. The thing is, they were a year or two older than when they bought them so that doesn't help for long term resale. These are mostly over 15yr old now so that is long term.

OH! and add another vote for Buck. I deal with him from Illinois and have had nothing but good results.