BX2200 Electrical Problem

[Tom_H]

Yesterday, when I went to crank, I noticed the glow plugs didn't come on. It still cranked though, but I noticed the fuel and temp. gauges weren't working. Today I checked the fuse, which was blown, and replaced it. Glow plugs worked and it cranked. Gauges didn't work. Turned it off and back to glow plug position-they didn't come on, which told me fuse was blown again. I went ahead and worked with the Woods backhoe for several hours and the engine stopped as it would when out of fuel, but much more quickly-within 2 or 3 seconds as opposed to 10 or so. I couldn't tell how much fuel was in it so I added a few gallons. I let it sit for awhile and when I went to crank, it acted like it was sucking fuel for awhile without any combustion. It then began firing some, like it does when refueled after being empty. When I let the key go, it stopped instantly, just as though I had turned the key to off. I cranked it again and held the key at "start" for a good 2 or 3 seconds after the cylinders began firing and let the rpm build up. When I let go, it stopped dead instantly again.

I am thinking there might have been a short in the switch that caused the fuse to blow after i moved the key from the glow plug position to the start position. The problem maybe worsened and now when the key is in the "on/run" position, the switch sends the same signal to the solenoid that it normally does when turned to the "stop" position.

Does this sound reasonable, or does anyone have other thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
Tom

 

[dodge man]

There is a small lift pump. I bet that isn't getting power either and that is why it won't stay running. I haven't a clue as to why the fuse is blowing, it could be a lot of things, such as a short some where.

 

[radioman]

Sounds like a short. are you sure you getting feul to cylinders? what it sounds like to me is the shutoff solenoid has a short maybe and its closing and opening on its own. It sure would explain half of the problems you are having. I think a simple test would be disconnect the shutoff and test again. BE SURE you can reconnect the soleniod connection while still running safely so you can shut down the engine.

 

[Tom_H]

are you sure you getting feul to cylinders?

Yes, at first the crankshaft was turning with no combustion, but then the cylinders began firing louder and louder. The engine was running (full combustion on all cylinders) as long as I held the key @ the start position. When I released the key back to the run position, there was instant shutdown, just as there would be if I had turned the key to the off position.

 

[milkman]

Try pulling the screen off below the dash and on the right side there is a fuse block, one of the fused is for the fuel shutoff solenoid, this fuse is bypassed when the key in in start position so it will run when held in the start position even if the fuel solenoid fuse is blown. Hope I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Tom_H]

Try pulling the screen off below the dash and on the right side there is a fuse block, one of the fused is for the fuel shutoff solenoid, this fuse is bypassed when the key in in start position so it will run when held in the start position even if the fuel solenoid fuse is blown. Hope I'm remembering correctly.

I already had checked all of those, the only one blown was the one to the glow plugs, temp gauge, and fuel gauge. It was blown earlier, but the tractor would start and run. After the tractor conked out, I checked all fuses again; it still is the only one blowing. Each time I replace it, the glow plugs will come on. Regardless of whether I have replaced the fuse or not, when I turn to "start", the starter will still turn the crankshaft and combustion will begin in the cylinders, but everything stops when the switch is allowed to rock back to "run".

 

[SeymourBota]

Last summer I had to replace the ignition switch in my BX2200.

I think the glow plugs worked and it would crank and try to start but then stall.

I could turn the key and not hear the fuel pump run- a sure sign.

I'm betting it's a $55 ignition switch.

 

[Tom_H]

Last summer I had to replace the ignition switch in my BX2200.

I think the glow plugs worked and it would crank and try to start but then stall.

I could turn the key and not hear the fuel pump run- a sure sign.

I'm betting it's a $55 ignition switch.

When the key is in the position for the glow plugs to preheat, is that fast, not very loud knocking sound the fuel pump? What you describe is what I am experiencing: when I turn the key to the glow plug position, it does not make that sound.

Did you have to take your tractor in to the shop? Did they do a field repair, or did you make the repair yourself?

 

[SeymourBota]

Yes, it's a clicking sound.

You don't need to do it in a shop. The switch is plug and play. Just use a set of offset pliers to hold the outside ring while you unscrew the old switch.

5 minute job. p/n 66101-55200

 

[Tom_H]

It sounds like that switch is bad, just like yours was. Whether the blowing fuse is due to that or something else remains to be discovered. I haven't found any frayed wires anywhere, but the svc. mgr. says it could be from a bad relay. They hope to send a mechanic to the wet field where the tractor is stranded (poured rain all day on the clay field today) on Fri. I am wondering if I should try taking the switch off and in to the shop and see if they can test it. If bad, I could bring a new one back, install it myself. Maybe that would get the tractor started. If it starts, but the fuse is still blowing, I might be able to get it on the trailer and to the shop myself (unless the fuse prevents the fuel pump from sending fuel). Hmmm, any thoughts from anyone???

BTW-this fuel pump is completely separate from the injector pump, isn't it?

 

[gwdixon]

My thought is this (since you asked). I wish I could help a fellow Californian especially since your tractor is now stuck. This rain has caused me to sink the M7040 to the axles so I can identify. Perhaps my stupidity is a factor as well.

I have been following the thread hoping you could find a solution. Testing the switch with it off of the tractor with an ohmmeter should reveal an internal short of any kind as the key is turned to the several positions. If any of the positions goes to ground then that is where the problem lies.

 

[Tom_H]

Thanks G. W., and good luck getting out of this muck.

 

[EE_Bota]

Tom H.: Sorry for your troubles.
Fuses:
There is a 15 amp fuse that drives a Red/yellow wire that powers the following:
Left and right rear blinkers
head lights.
oil pressure lamp.
fuel gauge
hour meter
water temperature gauge
fuel pump.

Therefore, it is likely that it is not the main switch. It is more likely that the problem is whatever is blowing your fuse. If I think of more to say after looking at the diagrams more, I will post again. I will have to reread the entire thread, but tentatively, the glow plugs are NOT involved in this circuit.

 

[EE_Bota]

I am home sick, so I have a bit of time too look at the circuits. I already regret being a bit hasty in saying it is not the main switch, because I really cannot tell you why the glow plug indicator light does not light up. The glow plug light connect gets its power from the glow plug circuit itself, and gets it's ground from the voltage regulator. I will study a bit more.

 

[EE_Bota]

The more I think about it, the more the symptoms do not make sense to me.
A bad first position on the switch will prevent the fuel pump from running, and prevent the fuel cutoff from allowing the tractor to run, and all the gauges will be non functional.

A bad 15 amp fuse will prevent the fuel pump from running, so there would seem to be little chance you can take it out into the field and run it for hours with that fuse blown. This fuse also powers the gauges, mentioned in detail earlier.

A bad 20 amp fuse will allow the tractor to start (and run while in the start position), but when you let off from the start position, the fuel cutoff rack solenoid will disengage, and the tractor will cut off immediately.

There would seem to be very little chance the switch can blow any fuse whatsoever, other than the 30 amp slow blow, but if you blow that, nothing works. So I am at a loss to tell you what is happening.

If you can tell me the size of the fuse, and the color of the wires going to it and coming out of it, it would clue me in a bit, but short of that, I am very confused about what is going on with your tractor.

 

[Tom_H]

EE Bota,

I have to apologize big time. I appreciate all this time you have spent trying to help me. I used to own a VW Rabbit Diesel pickup. When the glow plugs were warming, a little horn would sound to let you know they were doing so. I did not realize that the little clicking sound was the fuel pump; I thought it was like my VW-an indication that the glow plugs were heating. I checked again and the glow plug light does come on when this fuse is blown. The only time I ever heard the clicking sound was when the glow plugs were on and I incorrectly associated the sound with the plugs. The absence of the sound led me to believe the glow plugs were not heating. I appear to have been mistaken and I apologize. Thank you for all the time you have put into this.

The fuse does still blow every time I advance the switch from glow plug position to start. The fuel pump sound is there if I have a fresh fuse, and absent when the fuse is blown. Regardless of the fuse condition, the starter turns over and combustion begins, but when the key is released, the engine shuts down-solenoid related I presume, as the shutdown is instant, not like the engine slowly dying as it runs out of fuel.

The fuse that blows is second down on the cluster. Originally it was a blue 15 amp fuse. I ran out of 15s and have been putting 25s in for test purposes, and those are blowing too. I bought some more of all sizes yesterday. I will go back an check the wire colors and get back to you. Again, thanks greatly and I am sorry for wasting your time through my error.

 

[EE_Bota]

Not a problem at all, Tom. I am here "under the weather" and bored as can be, and it took very little time at all in any case. I will be back at work tomorrow, however.

If you rolled up with your tractor on a trailer, once we got it in the garage out of the weather, here is what I would do:

a)replace the fuse with the correct size.
b)turn the ignition on
c)say "Tom, it's cold out here, let's crank the heater and go in the house and get a cup of coffee" all the while, leaving the ignition on.
d)when we got back out, check that the fuse is not blown.
e)turn on the lights. Turn on the blinkers. Turn on the directional blinkers.
f)turn all that stuff off.
g)get on the tractor,and try the glow plugs
h)turn the switch off. Turn it back on, and listen to the pump.
i)leave it on, and jiggle every wire I could get my hands on.
j)slap the dash a couple of times.
k)put the tranny in low range so it will not start, and fake start it a few times by turning the key to start. All the while, I would be very sure the fuse did not blow.
L)start the tractor for real. It could take a while. During all activity, I would be mindful that the fuse has not blown.
m)if it blew only after starting, I would
1)fix the fuse and do an advanced fake start by having everything ready to start, but pulling the starter solenoid wire off.
2)if it only truly blows when the engine starts, I would look carefully for wires going to ground only when the engine is shaking
3)if none of that works, I would resort to voodoo and disconnect and check the voltage regulator per the manual. If it checked bad, I would disconnect it, replace the fuse, and try again. ***
4)if none of that worked, I would turn all the lights off, and get you to watch one side, I would watch the other, and we would repeat the wire jiggling, and other tests, hoping to see a spark somewhere easier in the dark.
5)If all else fails, I would remove the starter switch, and repeat the process while the switch is hanging by it's wires, or sitting on cardboard, thinking that the only way the switch can cause a problem other than not conducting terminal to terminal is by going to ground through the switch mount, which would be impossible if it is not mounted.
6)If we found the switch bad, I would have you swear an oath that you will admit the switch was bad, but you will NEVER tell anyone all the stuff I did before I found out the switch was bad.
***It seems to me that your tractor should not run (long) with that fuse blown, yet you say it ran for hours. It makes me wonder if somehow when the dynamo starts turning, it back-feeds the circuit, blowing the fuse, but powering the fuel pump.

 

[gwdixon]

You are not so sick that you have lost your sense of humor.

 

[Tom_H]

Well, it sat for awhile due to the rain. After a few days, a mechanic from the dealer came out, hot wired it, got it sputtering, got halfway across the field, and then got the front wheels and front end dug deep into a mud pit of deep clay. It sat there for 2 or 3 more weeks, more rain and finally dried out some.

They finally got it out of the field and to the shop. At this point, it was starting without blowing fuses, and continuing to run at key release, but not shutting down when turned to "off" and the key removed.

They finally determined that both the switch and solenoid were bad. They figured that one started shorting first and that somehow made the other go out.

Both the FEL and bh are on, which is too much weight for my trailer, so am hoping for them to bring her home in a couple of days. Switch was $49, solenoid around $113, towing $95, and they didn't tell me yet how much labor is.

Grass now ranges from 12" to 27". Sure hope I don't have to brush hog the lawn before I take the MMM to it. :shocked:

 

[EE_Bota]

Thanks for the update! This is one of two threads I have been wondering about, and both threads updated today. I hope the labor is not too bad.
Good luck, and happy tractoring. Now I am going to find out what "Mighty Mouse" ate, if not Kryptonite.