BX2200 issue

wjsizemore77 · Jul 18, 2013

2 questions/concerns. BX2200, 445 hours, 60"MMM, no loader. Recently acquired this machine two weeks ago. Change air filter and engine oil filter prior to use. So far I have only about two hours seat time using the machine. It appears the previous owner neglected the maintenance and I'm thinking There may be some issues I did not initially spot based on these two questions...

1. When I changed the oil, I filled the engine until it read at the full mark on the dipstick. I used the machine about 20 min mowing, when it started sputtering (fuel delivery issue), so I parked it in the garage until I could change both the fuel filters (which solved the sputtering problem). The next day, I checked the oil level again, and it read about a 1/4" or slightly more above the full mark. I figured some how I must have accidentally over filled it, so I drained a little out until it was back at full. Fast forward a few days... Fuel filters changed, engine ran like a top mowing about another 1.5 hours. Parked in garage. Fast forward a few more days to today... Pull the dipstick and the oil reads about a 1/4" above the full mark again. I don't see any obvious signs of fuel or coolant in the oil, but I'm not exactly an expert at recognizing that either. I inspected the machine for signs of the other issue I suspected (question 2) and started the engine for 30 seconds or so. After shutting down, I rechecked the oil level after a minute or so, and it read about a 1/4" below the full mark. Could the oil in the filter draining back into the crankcase after extended period of being off account for the extra oil when cold, and subsequently the missing oil after starting up??

2. The more serious possible issue is I noticed after using the machine the first time, and then again during the second time it blows air and a fine spray of coolant from the air vent hose from the cap of the coolant resivour. The level in the radiator looked normal, and the level in the resivour looked a little high, so initially I thought it might just be the excess bubbling out once the engine heated up or a weak radiator cap. After doing some reading on the interwebs here on TBN, it seems like it might be exhaust gasses in the cooling system exerting enough pressure to blow out the vent tube. Likely culprit being blown head gasket/cracked head/engine block internally. So after doing more reading, when I came home today, I took the end of the vent hose and submerged it into a glass of water, started the engine, and immediately lots of bubbles. Big bubbles. Again, this was on a complete cold engine, so it wasn't from the thermal expansion of the coolant. Something definitely seems to be pumping a lot of air into the cooling system. Does this definitely mean blown head gasket/cracked head/engine block?? There are no other obvious symptoms... The engine seems to make plenty of power, starts on the bump of the key with no glow plugging, no white smoke. The only visible smoke I have seen in a puff of black smoke on a cold start that immediately goes away. The only other weird thing was how I mentioned prior to my last 1.5 hour use, the level in the overflow tank looked a little high... Today prior to startup it was almost empty. Maybe in that 1.5 hours I used it last, whatever is pumping air into the cooling system pushed it out the vent tube.

Thoughts and feedback welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Bill.

sandyc · Jul 19, 2013

something is amiss. I am thinking that you ought to run a compression test on the cylinders. That might provide an indication if the head gasket is leaking. Head gasket replacement is fairly straight forward. A cracked block....not so much.

KWentling · Jul 19, 2013

Sounds like a head gasket issue. As far as the oil level, pull the dipstick and wipe it clean. Then reinsert and pull again and read it. It may be holding oil up in the tube. Should do that on all dip sticks.

Kim

art · Jul 20, 2013

Normally you would have a overheating condition with a blown head gasket or cracked block. You could have a loose hose clamp that might be the problem with the anti-freeze. If it was either of the two they normally would leak into the oil when not running.

KWentling · Jul 20, 2013

Pretty clear to me that he is leaking combustion pressure into the cooling system. Most likely a head gasket.
I ran an old Case tractor for years doing the same thing. Never got hot even though I could only fill the radiator about 2/3 full. More than that and it would just push it out. No coolant in the oil either. Has everything to do with where the gasket is leaking.

Kim

Farmerford · Jul 21, 2013

I agree with Kim.

The gas coming out the radiator is almost certainly combustion gas. It could come from a cracked cylinder head or block or leaking cylinder liner (depending on engine design), but in my experience it is much more likely to be the head gasket. And if it is a head gasket it often will not contaminate the oil because in most engines the cooling water passages between the cylinder head and block are closer to the cylinder rim or fire ring than the oil passages or pushrod passages.

And it may well leak only one way for quite a while. The pressure inside the cylinder may be 1500 psig while the opposing pressure in the cooling system is only 15psig; and water is more viscous than air. So until the leak gets larger it may allow combustion gasses into the water passages but not allow water into the combustion chamber.

I had a John Deere that I ran for a long time (years, like Kim's case) with just such a leak. If finally got bad enough that when the engine was stopped hot the radiator pressure would force coolant into the combustion chamber and the exhaust would be white for several seconds after startup as the water turned to steam. Being lazy, I ran quite a while longer with the radiator cap loosened so that there was no pressure in the cooling system to force coolant back into the cylinder.

There was a steady stream of hot, moist air from the radiator overflow that even at idle would burn your hand if you held it within a few inches. The escaping gases were carrying perhaps a pint of coolant out per hour and I would have to top up after a few hours. I don't recommend you wait as long as I did.

Let us know what you discover.

Farmerford · Jul 21, 2013

I agree with Kim.

The gas coming out the radiator is almost certainly combustion gas. It could come from a cracked cylinder head or block or leaking cylinder liner (depending on engine design), but in my experience it is much more likely to be the head gasket. And if it is a head gasket it often will not contaminate the oil because in most engines the cooling water passages between the cylinder head and block are closer to the cylinder rim or fire ring than the oil passages or pushrod passages.

And it may well leak only one way for quite a while. The pressure inside the cylinder may be 1500 psig while the opposing pressure in the cooling system is only 15psig; and water is more viscous than air. So until the leak gets larger it may allow combustion gasses into the water passages but not allow water into the combustion chamber.

I had a John Deere that I ran for a long time (years, like Kim's case) with just such a leak. If finally got bad enough that when the engine was stopped hot the radiator pressure would force coolant into the combustion chamber and the exhaust would be white for several seconds after startup as the water turned to steam. Being lazy, I ran quite a while longer with the radiator cap loosened so that there was no pressure in the cooling system to force coolant back into the cylinder.

There was a steady stream of hot, moist air from the radiator overflow that even at idle would burn your hand if you held it within a few inches. The escaping gases were carrying perhaps a pint of coolant out per hour and I would have to top up after a few hours. I don't recommend you wait as long as I did.

Let us know what you discover.

wjsizemore77 · Jul 31, 2013

Farmerford said:
I agree with Kim.

The gas coming out the radiator is almost certainly combustion gas. It could come from a cracked cylinder head or block or leaking cylinder liner (depending on engine design), but in my experience it is much more likely to be the head gasket. And if it is a head gasket it often will not contaminate the oil because in most engines the cooling water passages between the cylinder head and block are closer to the cylinder rim or fire ring than the oil passages or pushrod passages.

And it may well leak only one way for quite a while. The pressure inside the cylinder may be 1500 psig while the opposing pressure in the cooling system is only 15psig; and water is more viscous than air. So until the leak gets larger it may allow combustion gasses into the water passages but not allow water into the combustion chamber.

I had a John Deere that I ran for a long time (years, like Kim's case) with just such a leak. If finally got bad enough that when the engine was stopped hot the radiator pressure would force coolant into the combustion chamber and the exhaust would be white for several seconds after startup as the water turned to steam. Being lazy, I ran quite a while longer with the radiator cap loosened so that there was no pressure in the cooling system to force coolant back into the cylinder.

There was a steady stream of hot, moist air from the radiator overflow that even at idle would burn your hand if you held it within a few inches. The escaping gases were carrying perhaps a pint of coolant out per hour and I would have to top up after a few hours. I don't recommend you wait as long as I did.

Let us know what you discover.

I had a mechanic friend I trust look at it, and he agrees it is likely a head gasket failure, possibly worse. Looks like I'm gonna tear it down and hope its just a gasket.

wjsizemore77 · Aug 10, 2013

Was a blown head gasket. Failed right in between the first and second cylinders. From the looks of it, I had been that way for a while. Put a new gasket in, and problem gone. Seems to run smoother in the lower rpm range, as the loss of compress between cylinders is fixed. Keeping my fingers crossed there aren't any other gremlins in there.

Grandad4 · Aug 11, 2013

Hope that takes care of it. Sounds like the tractor has been mostly used for mowing, so here's a maintenance suggestion. There's a screen to keep clippings from going into the radiator - or at least there is supposed to be one. Obviously you keep it clean. But it doesn't catch the smallest particles, and they build up on the radiator core over time and need to be gently washed off the core with soap and a light spray of water. I do it once a year or so. Can't say that had anything to do with the head gasket problem of course, but it's an easy thing to do anyways.

Another maintenance area you might check out is all the grease points on the mower deck. They want to be lubed regularly and if neglected until now may be really dry.

Good luck with the BX. Great little tractors, but like anything else they need good maintenance.