BX23 HST failing...suggestion?

[asleepattheweel]

My BX23 is 4 years old and has less than 250 hours on it. A few months ago it started having trouble pulling its own weight up a steep incline. The HST would start to make an increasingly louder growl that would lead to a loud chattering that would stop it's forward movement. (At least I think it would, but as the vibration and grinding was so loud, I didn't keep pushing it to find out.) If I slowed down, all would reduce itself and I could slowly continue to climb the hill. The same thing would happen on level ground if I were trying to push the FEL into a pile of gravel or whatever. This would happen in forward, reverse, high gear, low gear, and in either 2 or 4 wd.

I changed the transmission fluid and filter and cleaned the strainer. The strainer had some metal shavings in it but not too bad. The dealer had performed the 50 hour for me so this was the second time this had been done since new. In any case, there didn't seem to be any change.

The dealer that I bought it from (10 minutes away) went out of business so I hauled it to the next closest place (40 minutes away). The mechanic did the normal checks on the pressure valves and so forth and everything checked out. Since he had never run into anything like it before, he ended up contacting Kubota about it. They said that the HST was going out and needed to be replaced. The mechanic said that the new HST would cost $1200 and that the labor would cost $1200+! He threw a few numbers around and said the final cost would be somewhere between $2500-$2700. This seems insane to me.

He also stated that Kubota said that there was a small chance that some plunger may be stuck and might free itself and start working again, although not likely, and, further, that it wouldn't hurt anything more if I just continued to use the tractor until full HST failure.

Does anyone have an experiences along these lines or any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[Volfandt]

There was another poster about a yr ago that had the HST go out on his BX23 or BX2230 also. His started with an intermittent grinding sound that eventually got worse until it quit. The grinding was the integral hydraulic pump's gears grinding inside the pump. In his case he had hit something that had punctured the HST filter which then allowed the HST fluid to leak down past the damage level. Just driving it back to his garage without much fluid in it done it in. The HST fluid provides the power, heat dissapation and lubrication for the HST and the HST won't last long without it.

Other than changing the fluid, filters and cleaning out the screen, theres not much else you can do under a shade tree. What type fluid are you useing? If your using SUDT then your using what Kubota recommends. You could try changing over to some Chevron synthetic UDT equivalent but it ain't cheap.

Other than that, the Kubota tech's recomendations are just about it...

Good luck

 

[dfkrug]

The HST would start to make an increasingly louder growl that would lead to a loud chattering that would stop it's forward movement. (At least I think it would, but as the vibration and grinding was so loud, I didn't keep pushing it to find out.)

I am not familiar with the BX's....does it have a foot-operated dry clutch?

Chattering is the sound you get when a clutch grabs and slips rapidly. This
may indicate an oil-fouled dry clutch (if you have it). That is what caused
the failure in my B21. Oil can come from the engine crank seal or from the
tranny side.

As VOLFANDT states, any HST is VERY intolerant of fluid starvation. That is
why users need to park the tractor immediately when you experience a
catastrophic fluid loss, as when you break an oil line. Growling is the sound
you often get when fluid is low. Grinding would happen, I would expect, when
the piston slippers are starting to score the end plates in the HST main
pump. That would be long after the growling stage.

 

[asleepattheweel]

Thanks for the replies fellows.

Volfandt - I had the 50 hour done by the dealer so I assume he used Kubota Super UDT. When I changed the fluid and filter less than 5 hours ago, after the problem already existed, I used a substitute that has been mentioned on here as being used for years by others (the name of it slips my mind). The fluid levels have never been low.

dfkrug - No clutch.

I've e-mailed Kubota to complain about it on such low hours (don't expect anything from them naturally). I'm going to get repair prices from the next 2 closest dealers before I say yea or nea to these guys. Whoever does the repair I'm going to see if they've got any leverage with Kubota on getting a break on the parts anyway...worth a try. Guess I'm stuck.

 

[grossgary]

any chance of finding a used HST unit? the Kubota HST's seem to have great track records, so used would'nt be bad if they're available.

i'd also check prices through a non-kubota dealer place. might be significantly cheaper and might have more sources to search for HST units. after looking at my kubota i wouldn't be afraid to replace anything on it myself - looks rather simplistic compared to other things i've worked on.

the units aren't rebuildable at all? even if someone charged $1,000 - that's cheaper than $2,000? i guess they're considered self contained units?

 

[dfkrug]

the units aren't rebuildable at all?

The units are quite rebuildable and, most likely, a "complete" HST may not
be required. These units are far simpler than say, automotive ATs.
As I recall from my recent B21 HST rebuild, the "complete" HST assy was
buyable for about $1200, but this does not include any gearbox parts or
even the charge pump. Inside the HST housing, there are 2 assemblies: the
axial piston pump and axial piston motor. They were available as separate
assemblies for about $500 each, if I recall correctly. As it turns out, the
ONLY major parts I did not have to buy new were these 2 assemblies, as
well as the housings.

Since the tractor has to be cracked, parts cost will prob be less than labor.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I don't think 2500-2700 is unreasonable considering the work it takes to split and replace the HST. There are companies that sell rebuilt hydro's, the names are not comming to mind. Its not a huge cost savings. Are you still getting chunks in the strainer? I'd question putting in a different HST fluid, given your having trouble its probably best not to throwing more variables in the mix that could be causing trouble.

 

[asleepattheweel]

I actually did get a reply back from Kubota and they seem to be willing to work with me but they want the problem verified with the dealer before they'll talk turkey. So I'm working on that angle.

I burns me that the dealer didn't offer to go to bat for me without me starting the ball rolling first, though. I called another dealer and that was the first statement out of his mouth - that Kubota will generally work with you on a situation like this and that if I brought it over there, they'd try to intervene on my behalf and see what they could do. Unfortunately, it would be a bear to get to their location from here so I'm going to try to work with the dealer that I'm currently at.

As far as rebuilt goes, I asked about it and was told that Kubota said it required a brand new unit, so I took this to mean they don't approve of rebuilds.

Neil, since I've had a chance to cool down, I agree that the price doesn't seem all that unreasonable like it did at first ;-) . In any case, no matter how you spell it, I'm no *ace* mechanic...I'd rather drive a tractor than work on it any day! As far as the fluid goes, that didn't last very long anyway. The guy didn't hear me when I told him I just replaced the fluid and filter so he did it all over again...less than 5 hours on the substitute fluid!

Thanks to all who replied and I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[dannydan3]

My BX2200's HST went out after my PTO MMM shaft came off at full blast and ripped up the HST filter.
I had a brand new one installed by my dealer for $1800. I think that the price you were quoted is way high, you should be able to get one installed for around what I paid.