Case 580 Backhoe - Hard start

llewellynsd · Jan 16, 2004

Folks,
I've found a Case 580C backhoe that appears to be in nice condition. The owner had the engine rebuilt and say everything operates fine, but indicated that it is hard to start when cold.

Shouldn't a rebuilt diesel engine start fairly easy in cold weather? I thought typically the reason diesels were sometimes hard to start when cold was due to worn cylinders and low compression.

Is this typical of these Case backhoes?

What other things should I be looking for on this machine that might indicate that it was either not well maintained or might have mechanical problems?

Thanks Shawn

grainger12002 · Jan 16, 2004

for what its worth my old 580 case starts like a bear when its cold,always has-the motor runs very good once warmed up. Dont know if thats typical or not- LLoyd

theonlybull · Jan 17, 2004

ours usually starts ok, if it's been running within the last week . how old is it? does it use the manifold heater?(ours does), if the heaters not working, it will take forever to get it to go,

Wannafish · Jan 17, 2004

By "hard starting" is he referring to it having to crank for a long period, or that it is hard to get it to turn over when it's cold out?

Mine was a son of a gun to get it to turn over anytime the temp was below 35 F.

Had my starter rebuilt...WOW! Spins over good and takes right off even in the low 20's now.

art · Jan 17, 2004

Have the battery checked as well as the starter. They are not bad cold weather starters by nature.

theonlybull · Jan 18, 2004

had ours goin at -22 c the other day. i'm not sure what that is in F, but i know it's **** cold /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

CamshaftLF · Jan 18, 2004

Don't no if this will help, had a cousin that owned a hoe started good in the summer but was a bear to start in the winter,to make a long story short, He broke a hyd hose and didn't get it fixed till the next day, it was winter time he had to start it to move it for some reason before putting new hose on and it fired right up, he got to checking around found that the relief valve for pump was bad and when cranking the motor over it was trying to bluild pressure. That was 5yrs ago has been starting great sent's that day.
Maybe its' that simple !!!!!!!

snowbound · Jan 18, 2004

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( -22 c .... i'm not sure what that is in F)</font>

About -8 F.

theonlybull · Jan 19, 2004

yup. went and looked at the thermoter after.... **** cold how ever you say it... did find out that the cab and heater we put on last fall works rather nicely /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
till the alt, died and the battery went dead /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

llewellynsd · Jan 20, 2004

Wfish,
From what I understand it takes a while cranking it, not that it won't crank at all. The hoe is a 1978 model.

I spoke with a friend of mine this morning who owns a heavy equipment business and apparently his company has done most of the repairs on this hoe over the years. He indicated that for the price if I did not buy it then his company would be buying it. He is a close personal friend and has nothing to gain from me buying it so that sort of made me feel better about going ahead and purchasing this hoe.

Is a manifold heater similar to a block or freeze plug heater? This friend I mentioned recommended installing a block heater on the hoe for easier starts and less wear on the motor. Guess I'll be buying one and putting it in when I get it.

Shawn

Richard · Jan 20, 2004

Brutus (JCB 1550-B) will startup on what seems to be a 1/4 rotation of the crank DURING WARM months. It's almost like an on/off switch. A very quick starter.

In winter time,it definately takes more revolutions. in my scenario, the colder it is, the longer I gotta crank it. (no preheater of anykind).

Richard

Wannafish · Jan 20, 2004

Manifold heater heats the air/fuel mixture prior to it entering the combustion chamber.

Block heater increases the temperature of the engine and to some extent the oil, allowing it to crank over easier.

theonlybull · Jan 21, 2004

like said above, the manifold heater heats the air, in the intake manifold. hold the button for 20 seconds, and see if it's warm to the touch, if not, there's something wrong. if it does work, DO NOT use either with it , just a word to the wise /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

llewellynsd · Jan 21, 2004

Rick,
Excuse my ignorance here but I guess it would be advantageous to install both kinds of heaters (manifold and block), would it?

Is there a supplier here on the net that is reputable for Case parts incase the manifold heater is not working or are after market manifold heaters available for this hoe? I guess I could install a universal block heater as long as the diameter fits up to the opening in the block?

I have not actually been on the hoe yet. I've seen it twice up close but have not had the time to climb on to it. Will be meeting the owner this Saturday to look it over. Up to this point I've just been relying of my friend who has serviced the hoe for information.

Shawn

SageBrush · Jan 21, 2004

If its a Cummins engine, you don't have to go to a case dealer only. The 580's I've used had the Cummins B motor. Look for a Cummins shop for parts and compare prices if you do your own work and need a new grid heater. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ScottAR · Jan 21, 2004

580C's had the Case 207 diesel... The 580D's started the Cummins lineage... The 207's were a dandy engine though. Some equipment used the 207 up into the mid 80's.

theonlybull · Jan 21, 2004

the 207 is a great engine for the hoe, but you may find it a tad underpowered if you do alot of roading of the machine.

our '70 580ck hadn't run in 15 years when we bought it. we freed it up, gave her a set of rings, and injectors, clean the fuel system, and freed the valves up. she started right up and purred like a kitten..

mikell · Jan 25, 2004

I had a brokem waterline to fix. 580D hadn't ran in a month and was only going to be 7 F today so I pluged in the block heater and batt charger last night. Got to -7 last night. A quick squirt of ether and she started right up this morning. Let it idle for 1/2 hour or so before tried to do anything and no problems about 4" of frost. Fixed the line it was quite warm at 5 feet down.