Cattle questions

[paulsharvey]

Got a couple stupid questions, but I'll give background first. We are planning on getting a couple steers, not right now, but down the road a few months. We want weened, and I'm not above banding intact males, or frankly having heifers. Don't want to jump in too deep, but eventually, for personal use, and tax reasons, want to get upto the magic 6 number. I'm strongly leaning towards Red Baldie (Red Angus/Hereford cross), based on what I've been reading. No specific, logical reason for Red vs Black, but I'm contrarian... I have some experience, but more with sheep as a kid, and some around cattle more recently, but I'm gonna ask the stupid questions.

So, the Black (and Red) Baldies seem to be praised for health, meat, vigor, ect. Is there a difference in breeding a baldie bull to a baldie heifer; vs a Hereford bull to Angus heifers. Is there a reason it's typically a hereford bull and Angus heifers vs a Angus bull and hereford heifers?

For a guy buying the first couple, are weened steers (and/or heifers) the best bet?

Also, have had some friends pick up male dairy-beef cross for dirt cheap. Would that be a smarter starter step

 

[jyoutz]

I have no idea regarding the breeding to produce the red cross. I always buy weaned steers at about 450-500# weight. If you get them late spring at that weight and feed grass or hay all summer, you can start graining them in October and have them up to 1100 pounds finished weight by January/February and ready to go to the packer. That’s a good way to put beef in the freezer fast. Always keep at least 2 of the same age cohort. They don’t gain or do well by themselves. We would always keep one and sell one at packing time.

 

[rumwrks]

Is there a reason it's typically a hereford bull and Angus heifers vs a Angus bull and hereford heifers?

Calf size. For easy calving you'd generally breed a slightly lighter bull to a heavier cow. I remember our neighbor had Charolais cattle and everytime one of his bulls would get one of our herefords we were at best pulling the calf if we weren't cutting it apart to get it out in pieces (some cows could do it... but we did have a more than a few problems). Other than that .. meh.. unless you're raising purebreds I'm not sure it matters to much.

Thin out anything and their offspring in the herd that doesn't birth well, mother well, gain well, has bad feet, or is difficult to manage (definition of "difficult" depends on your situation, for range cattle its "are they smart enough to survive well, can you push them easily with dogs/horse/4 wheeler/whatever" for a barn cow it might be more "is she ornery or pleasant to be around"). If you don't you'll have more problems than not.

Some of the best meat I've ever had was from a Holstein Hereford cross, but they are slower to mature and don't put on quite as fast. I think we butchered that one at over 2 (he was LARGE at that time, but mostly tall not so big around) where we'd usually finish off the other butcher steers on the fall. if they're cheap enough and you have grass and time, sure.. if you're paying to feed them up maybe not so much cost wise. Dairy cross steers can eventually get really big though so if you want an ox or two...

Heifers only really make sense if you're planning to breed them or you get them reeeeally cheap IMHO. They don't gain nearly as fast as steers for just eating.

 

[Hay Dude]

What’s your budget? We liked Angus and low line Angus

 

[paulsharvey]

I will also add, I'm not ready for 6 head. I am still in the pasture rehab (basically starting completely over) stage, and will need to expand fencing and create more new pasture for the end goal.

Also, I say "for tax reasons", that's part of it, but meeting the requirements of a Boni Fide ag propety is less about saving $400/year on property taxes, than other stuff.

I am also not one of the grass and grass only, never fertilize or spray or lime zealots you see on YouTube. At the same time, I do try to take some of the learning from those folks, if not their hardlines.

 

[paulsharvey]

What’s your budget?

Well, we want to Ease into it. That's why we are thinking two steers to start with. If we don't want to keep at it, you Can process them at 800 lbs each, and exit, and not really loose your butt.

If we find we want to keep at it, which is my hope, I would ideally look into having a breeding bull, and 5 breeding cows; but that would be 5 years down the road.

For $ number, what do mix breed weened steers go for, about $400 per? Feed them out, and frankly see where we are... That's not a business plan i know.

I've known guys who have gotten dairy-beef calfs for as low as $125 about 2 weeks old, feed them out for 15 months, but thats frankly not the easiest animal to start.

 

[paulsharvey]

For the record, I've had friends and co workers suggest hair sheep, and they claim they have had them, and done fair to pretty decent; from a market stand point, and low input side as well. There is just a lot more timing involved, lambs are obviously best priced leeding into easter. I just don't think wife and daughters would eat 300# of lamb/mutton each year; where we would eat 400# of beef easily every year.

 

[jyoutz]

Well, we want to Ease into it. That's why we are thinking two steers to start with. If we don't want to keep at it, you Can process them at 800 lbs each, and exit, and not really loose your butt.

If we find we want to keep at it, which is my hope, I would ideally look into having a breeding bull, and 5 breeding cows; but that would be 5 years down the road.

For $ number, what do mix breed weened steers go for, about $400 per? Feed them out, and frankly see where we are... That's not a business plan i know.

I've known guys who have gotten dairy-beef calfs for as low as $125 about 2 weeks old, feed them out for 15 months, but thats frankly not the easiest animal to start.

It varies by the yearly and even seasonal market conditions. I typically pay local ranchers $100 per hundredweight for weaned steers. But I have seen market swings from $50 to $175 per hundredweight. I don’t want to get into breeding and herd development, just to produce great tasting beef for our freezer so the prices I pay for the calves is probably a little on the high side. Regardless, my beef is still cheaper than store bought after factoring in all purchase, feed, and packing costs. And far better quality than supermarket beef.

 

[jyoutz]

At one time I considered building and breeding a small herd of Galloway cattle because they are smaller and easier to handle and produce great beef. But they are expensive to buy to get started.

 

[MMC]

Got a couple stupid questions, but I'll give background first. We are planning on getting a couple steers, not right now, but down the road a few months. We want weened, and I'm not above banding intact males, or frankly having heifers. Don't want to jump in too deep, but eventually, for personal use, and tax reasons, want to get upto the magic 6 number. I'm strongly leaning towards Red Baldie (Red Angus/Hereford cross), based on what I've been reading. No specific, logical reason for Red vs Black, but I'm contrarian... I have some experience, but more with sheep as a kid, and some around cattle more recently, but I'm gonna ask the stupid questions.

So, the Black (and Red) Baldies seem to be praised for health, meat, vigor, ect. Is there a difference in breeding a baldie bull to a baldie heifer; vs a Hereford bull to Angus heifers. Is there a reason it's typically a hereford bull and Angus heifers vs a Angus bull and hereford heifers?

For a guy buying the first couple, are weened steers (and/or heifers) the best bet?

Also, have had some friends pick up male dairy-beef cross for dirt cheap. Would that be a smarter starter step

OK, the folks here have given you some good information. Here are some of my opinions:

- Blacks sell better (often without enough justification).
- Bottle feeding a calf is just not where you want to go.
- Prices are going to be high. The total US herd size is way down. Some farmers just don't want to jump back in.
- You haven't yet factored in veterinary costs. All the animals will need a series of shots before or as they come to you. Either the producer or a large animal vet with facilities will have to do that for you. If you have later sickness on your farm, how will you get the animals up to treat them? Not to mention later worming, etc. Think pens, water, feed troughs, etc. Dart guns can work, but that calf will remember you shot it...
- Feeding finishing grains is a good way to marble the beef in your animals and gentle them down.
- Get a look at mama, if possible. If she's kinda' blocky with a lot of body area, her calf will probably have some good traits.
- If you buy from a farmer, make sure you trust them. You do not want a little calf that never got the colostrum - it will never prosper...
- Stockyards invite lung issues. There are some really resistant bugs out here now and vets and medicine are expensive.
- Pick the weight you want to buy and pull up Florida beef prices from the USDA. It may be an eyeopener. But, if you buy cheap, you will probably sell cheap.
- If you really want to do this, I suggest you ask for a short visit and some free materials at your local Florida Ag Extension Office (well, we just call them the "County Agent" up here). They work for you and can be very helpful with information and guidance. That's their job.

Best of Luck