Chemical Attacks on US?

[ScottieM]

I was in the Air Force for 7 years, while in I was exposed to information about chemical/biological weapons that to be honest scared the hell outa me as well as my co-workers. I never thought I or anyone in the U.S. would be exposed to these weapons. Does anyone else out here feel there is a good chance one off these weapons will be setoff on U.S. Soil?

 

[cp1969]

Yes, the first chance they get. That's why this nonsense has to be brought to an end with finality. If that means destroying the governments of Islamic countries and installing our own puppets there and/or occupying them, so be it.

 

[RPM]

I think that it is now a definite possibility. Look what the Aum-Shinrikyo cult in Japan did - they managed to manufacture and release Sarin gas on the subway over there.

I know that the government closely monitors sales of the component chemicals for these agents - but look at sponsors for terrorism such as Iraq - they seem to be making plenty of the stuff.

It bothered me actually when the first planes allowed back in the air after Tuesday were crop-sprayers. Imagine what a few gallons of nerve gas sprayed over a city would do. These planes also fly so low that they would be almost impossible to shoot down or detect from a jet-fighter.

The only deterrent that I know of is that which was stated during the gulf-war to Iraq. Namely that if ****** attacked with weapons of mass destruction then the US would respond in kind. If there's one thing that is common with all the leaders of these crazy groups it's that they really don't want to die. They don't care if their people do - but they sure as heck don't.

 

[RPM]

We're starting to see the first signs that the best policy toward these already war-torn nations may be to encourage democracy through better economic development rather than war. (Although sustained strikes to keep out the lunatic fringe from these places and let the normal folks prosper are a good idea).

It doesn't give a feel-good -- but not all of the governments sponsor terrorism. After all, we sponsored and trained the Afghanis against Russia -- and ****** Hussein was also our puppet in the Iraq-Iran war. That policy was obviously not too successful.

 

[cp1969]

When I say 'puppet', I don't mean someone who is of that nationality and at the moment friendly to our interests...I was thinking more along the lines of a territorial governor or something similar to what we did with Germany and Japan.

Prosperity? Not if I have anything to say about it. That is what made Tuesday possible.

 

[Kelvin]

It's like the military used to say about cigarettes...
.........if ya got 'em, smoke 'em.

Regarding chemical, biological, and NUCLEAR weapons;
.........if they've got 'em, they'll use 'em.

Kelvin

 

[EdDekker]

Yes I am terrified what could happen.

I am surprised that we have not seen another chemical attack in the six years since the Aum Shinrikyo attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995 with Sarin.

I am more frightened by Biological Weapons. The use of Biological weapons has far worse consequences and unfortunately the technology is widely available. We can expect that many experts in development and production have left Russia since the break up of the Soviet Union.

I doubt that anyone could read 'Biohazard : The Chilling True Story of the Largest Covert Biological Weapons Program in the World-Told from the Inside by the Man Who Ran It', (by Ken Alibek) or 'Plague Wars : The Terrifying Reality of Biological Warfare', (by Tom Mangold, and Jeff Goldberg)
and not be terrified of the possibilities.

The Soviet Union had a huge program of Biological weapons production and Russia still has massive capabilities. The Soviet Union maintained stockpiles far beyond the obscene: 20 tons of fresh smallpox virus and 20 tons of fresh Anthrax spores. Yes TONS! Anthrax, plague, tularemia, and glanders were genetically engineered for antibiotic resistance. A few grams of any of these could supply a terrorist group with enough to contaminate a city. Smallpox could spread through the world quickly. (The immunizations we took in the early sixties have worn off by now.) How well are the Soviet stockpiles guarded. Are these soldiers paid regularly or do they go unpaid for months like other branches of the Soviet military. Have they found a way to supplement their salary?

International inspection will not help. After the Gulf War Iraq was under the closest surveillance ever. This surveillance was far more intrusive than would be tolerated by any country not recently defeated in war. UNSCOM roamed through the country, yet the Iraqi Biological weapons program was not detected until a defector disclosed the details of the program. UNSCOM had already issued a report that there were no remaining Weapons of Mass Destruction left in Iraq. With the information provided by the defector UNSCOM confirmed that a Biological Weapons program existed that they had been unable to detect.

We now know about the Biological Weapons programs of

Japan (during WW2),
Soviet Union/Russia,
United States (program terminated by Nixon)
Rhodesia (program terminated before black rule)
South Africa (program terminated before black rule)
Iraq
North Korea
Aum Shinrikyo (program captured after the Sarin subway attack)

I don't know what solution is possible to prevent a Biological attack. Massive retaliation will deter a rational state, but what do we do with a crazy cult or group of suicidal terrorists?



see http://www.house.gov/hasc/testimony/106thcongress/99-10-20alibek.htm for Ken Alibek's testimony in House hearings on Biological weapons.
see http://www.emergency.com/1999/alibek99.htm for a Q and A with Alibek
see http:// [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/plague [/url] for information on a PBS Frontline episode based on Albek's information

Ed

 

[patrickg]

Good post, Ed. Uh, regarding Sarin use in Japan. You speak of it like it was a one time deal and then they got 'em. That is the predigested officially promulgated sanitized, don't scare anybody version that we all got on the news. It is no secret, just didn't get publicized but there were at least 5 events. The cult got better at doing it over time and over time they were stopped but it wasn't a one-time thing with immedinate arrest and cessation.

With risk of being jumped for use of a word with more than one possible meaning. We are due (overdue?) for chemical, biological,and radiological attacks by terrorists. It is virtually unstopable except through intel (in short supply due to cut backs in humint). All the national overhead assets in the world are useless in preventing these sort of attacks but nevertheless previous administrations and congress in a rush to spend the peace dividends have eliminated humint due to cost.

You can get enough poison from a single castor bean plant to kill a small city. Is your town's water supply guarded effectively? How do you prevent someone from backfeeding poisons into the water system with a pump at higher pressure than the mains? It is trivial. Terrorists have brain storming sessions and lay awake at night thinking up much worse. We are vulnerable and an easy target for the bad guys. If we were hardened sufficiently to prevent most terrorist opportunities then we would no longer be the land of the free.
How much is enough. Be careful what you are willilng to give up, it might be hard to get it back.

Patrick (Gonna do something else before I get too upset and frustrated with the situation)