CK20 will not shut off- Timer Relay?

[RPMWFO]

Tractor- 2007 CK20 gear

Tractor starts normally. It won't shut off via the key switch and requires using the manual fuel shut off knob. Battery is new, cables are in good condition. All of the lights work. Dash works fine.

Here is where I am at with troubleshooting:

I disconnected the fuel shut off solenoid, and jumpered it direct to 12V+. Solenoid actuates. So I am going to assume it is good.

Pulled the dash panel for access to the timer relay plug. I checked continuity between the blue wire at the solenoid and the blue wire at the timer relay(good). Checked black ground wire at the timer relay plug- continuity good. I checked voltage at the timer relay plug on the white wire(12V unswitched)- good. Voltage on red wire(12V switched) with key switch on- 12v good. Turn off the key switch and there is no voltage on the blue wire that supplies voltage to the fuel shut off solenoid.

Based on the above, am I correct in the conclusion the timer relay is bad? Anything else I should check? I'm pretty weak electrically, so not sure what else to check.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Reassemble the key switch and goodys. Remove the solenoid and plug it back in..
I think the solenoid has to be grounded to the block inorder for this to work.. so.. this is going to take 2 people..
While holding the solenoid in your hand and grounded to the block somewhere.. start the machine and watch the solenoid..
The plunger move?? Now, shut it off.. did the plunger move?? IF YES.. its not an electrical problem..
It COULD BE the rack in the fuel pump is sticking to the run position and takes the force of the manual shut off to get it to go.
Its just a quick test before you start throwing parts at it..

 

[ritcheyvs]

I think PumpGuy's description applies only to the new SS configuration with the SS on the front of the engine and no external SS linkages.

I think RPMWFO has the older version (diagram) with an external SS on the right side of the engine which operates the manual stop linkages. In the earlier version the plate under the IP has stop linkages instead of an oil fill port. If this is true, I agree with RPMWFO's conclusion that the timer relay is probably bad. On the other hand, there may be a poor (high resistance) electrical connection that reads OK with no load but won't pass the required current. One check you could do for that (with the timer relay disconnected) is to jumper from he white wire (12v unswitched) to the blue wire (to solenoid) at the timer relay connector; that should energize the SS if the wires and fuses are good.

Both the Paige and MIE online parts sites show "call us" in the price column for the timer relay so there may be an availability (or price) issue with this part. But based on the troubleshooting results it is reasonable to replace that time relay if he can get one at a reasonable the price. The other approach would be to test the timer relay on the bench, applying +12v and ground to the appropriate terminals and monitor the voltage at the blue wire when the red wire is disconnected.

 

[thepumpguysc]

If you search, ck20 shut off solenoid location, you'll see a page for an electrical download for that tractor..
Its VERY detailed w/ an explanation and trouble shooting w/ pictures.. How to test the sol. and the timer, which pins to check and their specs.. Hope this helps..

 

[DirtHauler]

Here's the possible problem as this happened with my CK30. Pull the solenoid, "fish" the engine stop solenoid guide out.......be careful as it can drop into the gear case (I pulled the "speed control plate" off which made it a lot easier to ensure it didn't drop). The guide should look like the one on right (see photo). If it looks like the one on the left, then this is your problem. The part number is: E5850-56603

 

[ritcheyvs]

DirtHauler's solution also applies to the new version of the stop solenoid. The new and old versions work exactly opposite: the old version gets power (for about 8 sec) to stop the engine and the new version requires continuous hold power (after the 1-sec pull pulse) to allow the engine to run. Kioti changed different models to the new version at different times between 2005 and 2008. I thought 2007 CK20 models had the old version, but I can't be sure. Until the OP tells us what version he has we are spinning our wheels.

 

[tnmike]

Check your key switch first. There are know issues with the switch. I had several weird issues and just replaced the switch. Fixed them all.

 

[ritcheyvs]

You should also check your fuses. There is one fuse (15 AMP, I think) that feeds only the (stop) timer relay and the stop solenoid (through the timer relay) to stop the engine. There is another 10 amp fuse that tells the timer relay and the preheat controller when the key switch is on but it's probably OK if the preheat controller is working.