CK20S HST vs CK20 HST

[Mr. Fixit]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post after reading all the interesting stuff for several months. Many thanks to all that have participated with highly valuable contributions. I think Kioti is the tractor for me. I have narrowed it down for my first real tractor to be CK20 HST with loader and backhoe (the new 2465).

I have an opportunity to buy a leftftover CK20 HST (the older version, but new leftover) or the new CK20S HST with almost $1,000 price difference between the two. So, here is the question: What's the operating/performance difference between the original CK20 and CK20S (both hydrostatic). Before anyone answers, here are a few facts of relevance:
- I know about the 2 hp difference, but how significant is it performance wise?
- I was told by a dealer that the main reason for the engine change was to comply with the new pollution control requirements, but I am skeptical of that argument and think that the original version may have been a bit underpowered for the tractor weight.
- My property is only 2 acres, gentle slope, but rocky, which is why I need a fairly strong backhoe and loader (to move the rocks).
- Need the tractor for landscaping, planting and shaping the property, including some stump removal, adding/spreading topsoil, etc.
- Do not plan on mowing, as I do not want any grass to maintain.
- For heavy excavation (house foundation, etc.), I will have professionals with the big machines come in and do that, but afterwards, I'd like to do the smaller stuff.
- I have about a 200ft gravel driveway, which will be paved at the end, after all the heavy construction machinery is finished with house building, etc. In the meantime, I need to pull a 2,500-3,000 pound vehicle with the Kioti up the gravel driveway (gentle slope, but up-slope nevertheless) any problems anticipated doing it with either one (CK20 or CK20S)? (Backhoe will be removed, of course).
- I am aware of the loader cracking problems on the original version and I would make sure it is the new style, if I buy the leftover?
- I also know about the cold starting problems on the new "S" version, but I am not worried about it, as the machine will be stored indoors, I can always heat it up a bit before starting and once Kioti issues a fix, I can always have it added to the "S" under warranty, if I get that one.
- Do not know how long the leftover has been sitting around and, even if the dealer told me, I could not verify his claim.

So, bottom line save a $1,000 and get a "leftover" or spend the additional grand and get the new one? Any thoughts will be appreciated!

 

[natem]

I believe that all that you have stated about the differences are correct. I bought the new ck20s this past fall, and am very happy and impressed, this is quite the machine. I see you say something about a strong backhoe, let me tell you when I pick up some of the rocks on our property I cant believe how easy it moves them. I think that the only two things that you did not say is that the new s has a horn, and the s has the curved boom backhoe which looks and operates great. I have not used one of the older ones but, I think they are about the same.

 

[beaverhouse]

Hi Mr Fixit!
I`ve been trying to decide between Kioti DK45 and Kubota L4240 and noticed on your profile your a "Kubota tractor Mechanic" but your ready to purchase a Kioti. !! Now thats a tell tale sign of some Kubota issues you`ve encountered...yes? I`d be interested in your thoughts re Kioti vs Kubota reliability and mech. issues?....Its like a Ford mechanic buying a Chev...Or is it strickly a $$ issue
Tks

 

[wallace]

Maybe he is just a thrifty shopper

 

[rimshot]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post after reading all the interesting stuff for several months. Many thanks to all that have participated with highly valuable contributions. I think Kioti is the tractor for me. I have narrowed it down for my first real tractor to be CK20 HST with loader and backhoe (the new 2465).

I have an opportunity to buy a leftftover CK20 HST (the older version, but new leftover) or the new CK20S HST with almost $1,000 price difference between the two. So, here is the question: What's the operating/performance difference between the original CK20 and CK20S (both hydrostatic). Before anyone answers, here are a few facts of relevance:
- I know about the 2 hp difference, but how significant is it performance wise?
- I was told by a dealer that the main reason for the engine change was to comply with the new pollution control requirements, but I am skeptical of that argument and think that the original version may have been a bit underpowered for the tractor weight.
- My property is only 2 acres, gentle slope, but rocky, which is why I need a fairly strong backhoe and loader (to move the rocks).
- Need the tractor for landscaping, planting and shaping the property, including some stump removal, adding/spreading topsoil, etc.
- Do not plan on mowing, as I do not want any grass to maintain.
- For heavy excavation (house foundation, etc.), I will have professionals with the big machines come in and do that, but afterwards, I'd like to do the smaller stuff.
- I have about a 200ft gravel driveway, which will be paved at the end, after all the heavy construction machinery is finished with house building, etc. In the meantime, I need to pull a 2,500-3,000 pound vehicle with the Kioti up the gravel driveway (gentle slope, but up-slope nevertheless) any problems anticipated doing it with either one (CK20 or CK20S)? (Backhoe will be removed, of course).
- I am aware of the loader cracking problems on the original version and I would make sure it is the new style, if I buy the leftover?
- I also know about the cold starting problems on the new "S" version, but I am not worried about it, as the machine will be stored indoors, I can always heat it up a bit before starting and once Kioti issues a fix, I can always have it added to the "S" under warranty, if I get that one.
- Do not know how long the leftover has been sitting around and, even if the dealer told me, I could not verify his claim.

So, bottom line save a $1,000 and get a "leftover" or spend the additional grand and get the new one? Any thoughts will be appreciated![/QUOTE=

==============

$1000 is a lot of money. You could save another grand if you select a CK20 gear model over the HST "S" and pay cash for another savings of nearly a grand over the ''free" financing. Hmmmmmm! So take an older CK20 and you get a free HST tranny out of the deal, right?

I just bought the CK20 (S) HST. It's been a very cold Winter here and my mornings have found the mercury right around zero. I am fortunate
to have a heated garage.......heated to 38* that is. In that envoirnment my CK20 starts fine w/o heat. Stick on a magnetic pan heater a couple hours before blast off and it starts even better at 38* in the garage.

I have heard there is some lug in high gear when going up a hill with the older CK20's which I have never driven. Supposedly they changed some gears and added two H.P. to the twenties and this solved this situation. I don't have any issues with this one so far.

rim

 

[Steve_Miller]

The only concern I would have would be that the older version have the newer style loader on it and not the old one.

Steve

 

[Gittyup]

I wouldn't swing for the extra bucks unless you think you are marginal on PTO HP. For ground engagement, I doubt that you'll notice any difference.

 

[wallace]

Guys not to stir the pot but there is a very noticable difference, I still have not fiqured out everthing that Kioti changed but it is very noticable especially in high range.

 

[rimshot]

Guys not to stir the pot but there is a very noticable difference, I still have not fiqured out everthing that Kioti changed but it is very noticable especially in high range.

============
And the (s) version HST model delivers 10% more horsepower than the old CK20. That is significant. I have driven up a few hills with my new CK20 (S) HST in High range and noticed no significant bogg down other than what can be expected.

I don't know if the gear model gets the (s) version 22 h.p.engine or stays with the 20 horse model.

rim

 

[Mr. Fixit]

Hi guys,

Thanks to all that answered. I will try to comment to everyone at once to save time and space:

"natem": Impressive pictures they certainly helped convince me!!!

"Beaverhouse": I am not a tractor mechanic, but only a tinkerer I like to fix things, build them and repair, as I want to have pride of accomplishment. I did a LOT of research about tractors, but not about the larger units. To me, it comes down to value. Like everything else in life, there are compromises and it all depends on what you need, want and how much to spend. I was very much convinced that Kubota was for me and waited anxiously for the new "B" models to come out and, while I have personally not even seen them as they are too new, I still think that you get more value in a Kioti. There is nothing fundamentally bad about Kubota as far as I know, although some people will argue very emotionally about this or that.

Basically, my research revealed that Kubota pretty much owned the market for small tractors, but Kioti is aggressive and catching up in terms of quality, features and they beat the price. Now, if I were just concerned about resale value, such as in case I wanted to buy a tractor for a year or two and then re-sell it, I think Kubota would hold value better. But, if I wanted to get the most for least $, then I think Kioti is the way to go. Kioti had some initial problems, yes, but what impressed me is that they fix them one by one smart move! In this day and age of internet, word spreads with the speed of light and smart companies know that they need to have a good reputation, which is hard to get and easy to lose. Once good reputation is lost, it is even harder to regain just look at the US auto industry!

Bottom line for Kubota: Longer reputation, strong brand name, better resale value, proven ruggedness

Bottom line for Kioti: Newer kid on the block, so more "hungry" better ergonomics, better pricing, more features standard, some better specs (hydraulics, lifting capacity, etc.)

"rim": Thanks for your cold weather experience thatç—´ what I thought too.

"Steve Miller": I would only consider the new style loader; the old one is a non-starter for me.

"Gyittyup": I am not sure PTO performance would be noticeable as most tractor actions are hydraulic, but I am not really sure if there is any PTO difference between the older and the 鉄 version, which is what I am trying to find out.

"Rick Wallace": If you find out more about the technical changes between the 2 versions, I壇 appreciate a brief post.

Again, thanks for any technical input as I'm in a bit in a dilemma. For $1,000, I can buy some implements, but do not want to regret my "penny pinching"