cold starting

[3_lb_trigger]

I'm coming into my first winter with my first tractor, and have found that it is very reluctant to start when the temp is in the 20-30's. Anyone have any tricks or tips on the matter?

 

[RoyJackson]

Are you using the glow plugs (or other cold weather starting aids listed in your manual)?

Personally, I would never use ether (especially if there is a heater element).

20' and 30's shouldn't be too much of a burden on starting. I do use my cold assist (in Deere's, it is a heater element in the air intake) once the temperature dips below 40°.
If you're parking the machine outside, I think adding a block heater would be beneficial. Actually, I'd add one anyway... Mine doesn't have one, but it's kept in a garage (basement of the house). However, I'll add a heater this year....should have done it last year.

 

[robison]

If you are having starting trouble in Arkansas this time of year there is something wrong with your machine. Our company is a Bosch service center for western Massachusetts, so we fix a lot of diesel troubles in cars and trucks. Here are some suggestions based upon that experience:

1 - You should check the operation of your cold weather starting aids. If you have glow plugs measure their resistance - most will measure .5 to .8 ohms. 1 ohm or more is in most cases bad, as is an open circuit.

If you have an intake air preheater measure it. Resistance may be similar or lower than glow plugs. Again more than 1 ohm or open is bad.

In the case of both glow plugs or intake preheater switch the key and heater on and measur evoltage at the element. If you don't see battery voltage there you have a controller problem.

2 - If you have a block heater measure the resistance through the cord. 25-60 ohms is a typical range of readings. 75 or more, or open = bad

3 - Make sure you have proper winter blend fuel. If you ar enot sure buy some Power Service winter additive (available at Wal Mart and elsewhere) and add per the directions on the container. Only a small amount is needed.

4 - Drain your fuel filter and look for debris and water. Many filter assemblies have a separate water trap. If in doubt replace the filter.

5 - Many diesel engines have manual valve adjusters as opposed to the hydraulic lifters found in cars. Some designs of diesel - like Mercedes in the 1980s - have valves that tighten after long periods, and in a diesel that translates into lost startup compression and hard starts/rough idles. If your valves are adjustable do so.

6 - If you still have starting trouble the next step is to pull the injectors, check your compression, and check the injectors. If you know a diesel service place to do this, great. If not, go to www.boschservice.com and use the menu to find a diesel service center near you to have your injectors cleaned and tested. While the injectors are out check compression - cylinders should all be the same within 10%. Readings under 300lbs will mean slow starts. Low compression may result from fuel washing (bad injectors) or engine wear.

7 - Make sure your battery is staying at 10 volts or better when cranking. If the battery is dropping below that level it's weak, either from age or discharge.

8 - If your engine does not start keep cranking for 30 seconds or until it runs. Do not crank 4-5 seconds, rest, and repeat like you might have learned to do with a car. Diesel engines rely on compression heat to start and continued cranking builds that heat. On a cold day it may take an older motor 20-30 seconds to fire up.

9 - Make sure the lubricants in your engine are thin enough to allow rapid cranking in cold weather. This can make a dramatic difference. For example, in new england we would use Mobil 1 5-40 Delvac in most machines. When comparing cold cranking between a motor with Mobil 1 5-50 and traditional 15-40 you would see a significant difference. And better crank speed = faster starts.

In a really cold area we would use Mobil 1 0-40 in the stuff we service (which is mostly Mercedes and VW diesel cars). Synthetic oil will always improve cold weatehr starting on diesels because it increases crank speed. Refer to your manual for the appropriate weight and rating for your machine.

 

[beenthere]

I'm also thinking you have a problem.
I am on the 6th winter with my tractor where the temps in Wisconsin are on the below zero side about as much as above during the winter, and have never experienced a 'slow' to start diesel. I don't use any heater but occasionally use the glow plugs 'warm-up' period of 8-10 seconds (manual on mine by holding the key 'in' before starting).

Startup is never more than a second of cranking (time one can say "one thousand one" it's running).

Hope this helps to get at the problem.

 

[Theowegian]

Now THAT was an answer. Thank you very much for some of THE best info Ive read on the subject of cold starting diesels.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dwight

 

[Gunfighter]

I have a J.D.790 with DIRECT-INJECTION engine, it's starts like my gas powered
car/truck hot or cold.. The books says to use the heater below 40 degree's
but I forget half the time and have started it with temps in the 20s...

Also have a Stiener tractor with Kubota engine,it is INDIRECT-INJECTION.
For a quick start I need to use the glow-plugs with the temp in the 70s and when
the temps in the teens an twenties you'll need to repeat the heating procedure two
an three time before it will start...

On the positive side the Kubota exhaust doesn't stink nearly as bad as on the J.D.
when started cold. Once the engines warm up I can't tell much difference in the smell...

Below is more info on the direct & indirect injection...

Richard
West Michigan.

DIRECT-INJECTION AND INDIRECT-INJECTION

The two fuel injection processes used in diesel engines, direct-injection (DI) and indirect-injection (IDI), are illustrated in Figures 6-2 and 6-3 (see below). In a DI engine, fuel is injected directly into the cylinder above the piston. In an IDI engine, fuel is injected into a small prechamber connected to the cylinder via a narrow passage that enters the prechamber tangentially. During the compression process, air is forced through this passage, generating a vigorous swirling motion in the prechamber. Then fuel is injected into the prechamber and ignition occurs there. The combination of rapidly swirling air in the prechamber and the jet-like expansion of combustion gases from the prechamber into the cylinder enhances the mixing and combustion of the fuel and air.


The more rapid mixing of fuel and air achieved in IDI engines comes at a price, however. The high velocity flow of air through the narrow passage connecting the main cylinder to the prechamber, as well as the vigorous swirling motion in the prechamber itself, causes the air to lose significantly more heat during compression than it does in a DI engine. Coupled with a pressure drop from the main chamber to the prechamber, this results in an air temperature in the prechamber after compression that is lower than that in a similar DI engine. Since rapid fuel autoignition requires a certain air temperature, an IDI engine needs a higher compression ratio to achieve the desired air temperature in the prechamber. IDI engines operate at compression ratios of about 20:1 to 24:1; while DI engines operate at ratios of about 15:1 to 18:1. The heat losses that necessitate these higher compression ratios have another, more important effect: they decrease the efficiency of the engine. IDI engines typically achieve fuel efficiencies that are 10% to 20% lower, on a relative basis, than comparable DI engines.

Even with the higher compression ratios, IDI engines may still be hard to start. Most IDI engines use glow plugs to heat the air in the prechamber in order to make starting easier. Glow plugs, which are small resistive heaters, are usually powered for only the first few minutes of engine operation.

With the negative attributes of harder starting and lower efficiency, one may wonder why IDI diesel engines are used at all. The answer is engine speed. As an engine gets smaller, generally it must operate at higher speeds to generate the desired power. As engine speed increases, there is less time per engine cycle to inject, vaporize, mix, and combust the fuel. As a result, the higher mixing rates afforded by IDI designs become necessary to achieve good combustion at higher engine speeds. IDI diesels most commonly are used in smaller automotive and light duty truck applications.


Diesel engines type an description..
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_6_1_rf.htm

DIRECT-INJECTION AND INDIRECT-INJECTION
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_6_3_rf.htm#SUB5

 

[Trev]

I'd have your dealer look at it. On my year 2000 JD 4300, it starts in any temperature I've encountered in less time than it takes to remove your hand from the key. Just a quick twich of the key and it's running. I do have block and hyrdraulic heaters, but don't use them above 0 degrees F. I can't tell you what the problem might be, but I'm fairly sure you have one. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Does it crank over slowly when cold?

Bob

 

[Highbeam]

"keep cranking for 30 seconds or until it runs. Do not crank 4-5 seconds"

Have to admit I would be oneof those 4-5 second crankers out of ignorance. 30 seconds? really? The good thing is that the Kioti never takes more than a second to fire off. This morning was 25 degrees and the tractor is stored outside. It started within one second as though it was 70 out and then worked till dark.

 

[3_lb_trigger]

No, it does'nt crank slow. It just cranks a long time as the engine slowly starts to come to life. I have to hold the starter on while the engine starts to spin barely faster than the starter and finally will run and idle on it's own, and belches white smoke while it clears out with the throttle.

 

[Trev]

Are you using anything to prevent the diesel fuel from gelling in the cold temperatures? I find "Power Service" to work great. I guess other folks cut their fuel oil with kerosene or some such, but the goal is the same.. keep that diesel fuel from becoming thick and refusing to flow properly when the temperature drops.

From what you're describing, I can't think of anything other than lack of fuel which would cause this.

Probably some other folks here, smarter and more experienced than I am, will have other ideas.

Bob