Cold weather start, with glow plugs and block heater. Why does my tractor not start at minus 20 C?

[Egon]

What next !? This causes me to mention that some of the older Dodge Cummins diesels used what amounts to a hair dryer in the intake rather than glow plugs. The coils heat up and guarantee hot air entering the combustion chambers . I don't know if such a thing exists intended for supplementing glow plugs in these super cold places but it seems like a good idea.

Glow plugs don’t work on direct injection Diesel engines. Those Cummins also had a fuel heater.

The block heaters will also heat up the oil. Try cranking an engine at -20F with no outside help and then try the same after a block heater has been plugged in for two to three hours. There will be a noticeable difference. For really excellent results put a block heater in each bank on a V8. It will Melt the snow off the hood and underneath the engine!

In times past an ash pan full of glowing coal embers placed under the oil pan worked very well.

 

[repete]

It only rarely gets to 10℉ in my location but I have found that if I pull the manual fuel shutoff for about 10 seconds of cranking then introduce fuel it seems to like it. My 2550 has in excess of 6000 hours with nothing done to the cylinders so I suspect the compression is marginal at this point.

 

[Mattsy Fergy]

Glow plugs don’t work on direct injection Diesel engines. Those Cummins also had a fuel heater.

The block heaters will also heat up the oil. Try cranking an engine at -20F with no outside help and then try the same after a block heater has been plugged in for two to three hours. There will be a noticeable difference. For really excellent results put a block heater in each bank on a V8. It will Melt the snow off the hood and underneath the engine!

In times past an ash pan full of glowing coal embers placed under the oil pan worked very well.

I will have to disagree. Why do mfrs install glow plugs if they don't work? Direct injection diesels have them in the chamber, and they are there to assist with combustion. Manifold pre-heaters, also called glow plugs, are in the intake manifold to induce warm air into the cylinders, also to assist combustion. Two different solutions to the same problem.
I don't know which type the 4707 has.

Dodge's Cummins had an air pre-heater installed in the manifold, partly to aid cold starting, and partly to avoid smoky cold starts, and the emissions problems associated with that. All controlled by the vehicle computer, and it cycled after start. The fuel heater was almost useless as it was in the filter housing or lift pump. By the time fuel moved through the injector pump to the injectors it was cooled again. Plus, some of them leaked causing lost prime and failed starts.

I don't know what type of block heater you are using, but a block heater warms the coolant in the block, typically to about 50* warmer than outside air. There is no coolant down around the oil pan, it is simply a thin (usually) metal container with no insulation. No matter how hot you get the coolant, it isn't enough to radiate down through all that cast iron down to the oil pan. A pan blanket, or other type of pan heater, is needed warm the oil.

 

[ruffdog]

It is interesting what happens when unburned diesel vapors back up into the intake with an intake heater. No wonder they can help heat the combustion chamber!

 

[LouNY]

It is interesting what happens when unburned diesel vapors back up into the intake with an intake heater. No wonder they can help heat the combustion chamber!

That is a thermo start system, not an electric manifold heater.
That system is designed to have an igniter and a fuel supply,
the fuel suppled is what is burning in the intake that steel line right behind where the electrical connection was made
is a supply line the electrical heated up the ignitor to light the fuel and preheat the engine air supply.

 

[ruffdog]

That is a thermo start system, not an electric manifold heater.
That system is designed to have an igniter and a fuel supply,
the fuel suppled is what is burning in the intake that steel line right behind where the electrical connection was made
is a supply line the electrical heated up the ignitor to light the fuel and preheat the engine air supply.

Thanks....learn something every day......

 

[Dmacleo]

While trying to muster some respect -- GOOD GAWD NO don't do that. Some of these machines use turbochargers who love to get crud ingested in them and cost thousands to repair or replace. I hope the OP is not crazy enough to do that.

yeah I didn't even think of that.
I have used a heat gun on intakes before but whenever you can avoid open flame and debris you are better....

 

[Denislp]

Maybe you could try synthetic oil like Rotella T6 0W40. It will be very easier at the cranking....

 

[Egon]

I will have to disagree. Why do mfrs install glow plugs if they don't work? Direct injection diesels have them in the chamber, and they are there to assist with combustion. Manifold pre-heaters, also called glow plugs, are in the intake manifold to induce warm air into the cylinders, also to assist combustion. Two different solutions to the same problem.
I don't know which type the 4707 has.

Dodge's Cummins had an air pre-heater installed in the manifold, partly to aid cold starting, and partly to avoid smoky cold starts, and the emissions problems associated with that. All controlled by the vehicle computer, and it cycled after start. The fuel heater was almost useless as it was in the filter housing or lift pump. By the time fuel moved through the injector pump to the injectors it was cooled again. Plus, some of them leaked causing lost prime and failed starts.

I don't know what type of block heater you are using, but a block heater warms the coolant in the block, typically to about 50* warmer than outside air. There is no coolant down around the oil pan, it is simply a thin (usually) metal container with no insulation. No matter how hot you get the coolant, it isn't enough to radiate down through all that cast iron down to the oil pan. A pan blanket, or other type of pan heater, is needed warm the oil.

Direct injection diesel has no pre combustion chamber. Indirect injection engines can make use of a glow plug. Intake manifold heating is different than an in combustion cylinder glow plug.

Block heaters have built in thermostats. They will shut off when the preset design temperature is reached. They will help raise the oil temperature. ( as per statement in previous post. There will be a definite increase in cranking RPM’s when a block heater is used) In the frigid North oil pan heaters and blankets are considered useless in very very cold temperatures. Battery blanket heaters are considered as very helpfull.

There are a lot of misconceptions about block heaters. The present ice engines start well without heating assist down to a reasonably cold temperature. The older carbureted engines could use/needed a lot of help When temperatures dropped below 0-F.

Don’t have any leaks on my fuel heater system.

 

[Erik M]

Makes sense! Yes, I found out that the block heater alone does not do it. I have to get one number lighter oil in there and make sure that the battery is full, etc.

I have an in-line coolant heater on my John Deere and a battery warming blanket. To reduce engine wear and reduce warm up time I always plug the coolant heater in for 30-60 minutes before starting as it warms the entire block and the engine pops right off and I don’t need to use the glow plugs. With those extreme cold temps I would certainly keep the warming blanket and block heater plugged in 24/7 if a daily user and toss a movers quilted blanket or sleep bag over the bonnet to try and keep a little heat around the engine if stored inside. Most of the engine wear occurs in the first minute of starting so keeping things warm helps that cold oil get where it needs to be, especially when cold. Arctic diesel helps too, and if you have old diesel in the tank from the summer you certainly want to add a fuel conditioner and some kerosene to avoid the gelling that occurs with summer weight fuel.