Comparisons.......

[Kiohio]

I just finished reading gamble77's post comparing the DK55 and the 5030.
A few raised concerns over other models being the "more comparable" model.
We do what gamble77 does, we compare the tractors to what other brand dealers compare them to.
I have had my CK20 compared to a BX series, because in my are the less costly the unit, the more chance you are going to sell it.
I was just wondering if this happens to most other Kioti dealers/possible Kioti customers or do most get compared to units that really do compare.

What type of guideline are paramount?

Cost? Weight? PTO HP? Engine HP? Features? Loader Capacity? etc.
How do you decide "what" compares to "what"?

Comparisons get harder and harder as all the manufactures bring out more and more units.
Any input is appreciated.
KO

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Interesting question . . . but please allow me to ask if you would consider my observations. First, I will totally agree that comparisions are very difficult, sometimes nearly impossible. But that is why I would ask you to consider the following.

Rather than comparing TRACTOR MODELS on a head to head basis, is it not better to define the tasks the user has to accomplish, rank them by importance, and then find the tractor best suited for the TASK?

I have often recommended other brands over Kioti based on that exact logic and I have occasionally recommended Kioti over other brands based on the same logic. Trying to compare MODEL X TO MODEL Y gets into arugements every time. No way around it. Simply because it does not factor in the tasks that need to be accomplished.


Lets face it, if you want to drill holes with a post hole digger you'd want high PTO horsepower and lots of manuverability. That would probably lead me to a Power Trac tractor.

If you want to mow the lawn then you want light weight and high PTO horsepower. That would probably lead me to a "B" series Kubota.

If you want to box blade your roadway, you need the traction that extra weight provides, so a Kioti would be an excellent choice.


It strikes me that a good dealer (I deal with 2 of those) spends as much time asking questions as he does answering them. He does his best to fit the tractor model to the buyer's task . . . just like a good shoe salesman would fit the shoe to the foot, but not sell a tennis shoe for jogging or a jogging shoe for golf. But for a dealer to engage in head-to-head comparisions seems to miss the point, and if the customer is doing that, then the dealer should do his best to educate the customer by reviewing what is actually needed to accomplish tasks, rather than what the customer thinks he needs, or what the customer wants to compare. I know a very weathly man who bought a JD 790 last year, I'm sure the dealer sold my friend what he wanted to buy as opposed to any of several models that would have been better tractors for his needs. In my mind that is a stupid dealer. Customers are not very bright when it comes to many things. A smart dealer will teach the customer and win him over for life. JMHO

 

[MotorSeven]

Bob,

X-cellent answer/opinion. There are so many good tractors out there, it comes down to application specifics, and dealer satisfaction. For those in their first purchase, picking the dealer can be a hit or miss task. We almost have to do as much homework on the dealer as the tractor models. I found the head to head of different brands to be very frustrating, time consuming, and in the end i caught myself nit-picking. After backing away and looking at them in a more practical "use sense" the decision was slightly easier. Price almost becomes secondary once you are anywhere near your ball park figure.

RD

 

[RedDog]

<font color="blue"> Lets face it, if you want to drill holes with a post hole digger you'd want high PTO horsepower and lots of manuverability. That would probably lead me to a Power Trac tractor.

If you want to mow the lawn then you want light weight and high PTO horsepower. That would probably lead me to a "B" series Kubota.

If you want to box blade your roadway, you need the traction that extra weight provides, so a Kioti would be an excellent choice. </font>


I've done, (and do) the 3 task above with one tractor. It sure would be nice to have 3 tractors, but not very realistic.


RedDog

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Lets face it, if you want to drill holes with a post hole digger you'd want high PTO horsepower and lots of manuverability. That would probably lead me to a Power Trac tractor.

If you want to mow the lawn then you want light weight and high PTO horsepower. That would probably lead me to a "B" series Kubota.

If you want to box blade your roadway, you need the traction that extra weight provides, so a Kioti would be an excellent choice. </font>


I've done, (and do) the 3 task above with one tractor. It sure would be nice to have 3 tractors, but not very realistic.


RedDog )</font>

As you know I didn't say that you should buy 3 tractors.

We all buy tractors to do multiple jobs, but that does not mean you should not rank your tasks as I suggest and buy the optimum tractor for the majority of your tasks. In fact, it illustrates my point. You just choose to point out that anything can be used even when it is not the best choice. Heck you can probably repair a car with a Swiss Army Knife, but its not the best tool for the job.

 

[RedDog]

<font color="blue"> As you know I didn't say that you should buy 3 tractors. </font>

Your right, you didn't come right out and say buy, but you did name 3 different tractors for 3 different jobs.

<font color="blue"> You just choose to point out that anything can be used even when it is not the best choice. Heck you can probably repair a car with a Swiss Army Knife, but its not the best tool for the job.
</font>

Might not be the best choice, but it is by far the most practical.

<font color="blue">We all buy tractors to do multiple jobs, but that does not mean you should not rank your tasks as I suggest and buy the optimum tractor for the majority of your tasks.
</font>

Majority of mine is mowing, but I sure as heck am not going to buy a zero turn to do it and nothing else, unless I come across some money, then I suppose I would.

RedDog

 

[sodamo]

Interesting point of confusion.
Had I tried to apply your philosophy when evaluating tractors, I still wouldn't have one I guess, because I sure couldn't afford one for each task. Not being a particularly bright customer, I also doubt I could have explained my task priorities so that any dealer would have been able to make the "best" recommendation. What I did hope to get was the dealer's best recommendation within his lineup. I guess what even further complicates things is now that I have a tractor, my priorities constantly change. Several weeks back, my PHD was invaluable, 2 weeks ago it was my boompole mounted on my FEL. This week has been all brushhog. When it gets delivered, hopefully next week, I'll have many tons of rock and gravel to spread, but my wife has been prodding me to put the backhoe back on so I can do those drainage ditches. I still need to till for my garden. Even worse, I doubt I view any of these tasks as I did when tractor shopping.
You're right, Bob, if I had the best tractor for each of those tasks, I could be a bit more efficient. And there might be 4 or 5 happy dealers instead of just one. But then again, I only had enough money to chose one.

I think the original poster's question is valid.

David

 

[rtimgray]

Not a reply to sodamo, but to this thread in general -

Bob's point about comparing/evaluating tasks instead of tractors is pretty solid, if a bit overblown in his examples. Its always a good idea to think about what you're going to do with the tractor before you buy it, but way too many times, I've seen so many nitpickers on this site try to "un-compare" tractors because they're too different. That's pretty silly, in real world application.

Is it fair to compare a 15 hp to a 90 hp .... no. But I've mowed by yard with a push mower, a 16 hp Yanmar, a 22 hp Ford, and a 45 hp Kioti, and really couldn't tell a heckuvalota difference when I was done (well, I was alot more tired after using the push mower).

We bushhog with all of the tractors listed above, plus with a Ford 5000 and 7700, but we use different bushhog sizes (4', 5', 6' 7', and 10'). We do tilling with the Yanmar, plowing and discing with all of the others. All of them drill post holes (although they Yanmar has done the most - it is the "fencing" tractor).

Does the 16 hp work better for fencing because it's smaller than the 7700 - absolutely. Could either one be used for it - probably. Do I have a preference for which is the "fencing" tractor - sure I do. But I don't let it stop me from using the Kioti if my wife is bushhogging with the Yanmar (I.e. I can't use that as an excuse to not go fix the fence).

I more or less lump tractors into about 4 categories -
1. Littlest tractors (like my Yanmar up to about the 20 hp offerings).
2. Little tractos - from about 20 hp to about 50 hp
3. Medium tractors - 50 -90 hp
4. Big tractors that I have no business owning - 90 and above.

Now obviously, those are some fairly broad ranges, but all of the similar tasks that I have need to accomplish in each category can be fairly well accomplished using any tractor from that range - and often with a tractor from a different range.

So when I read on here that there are folks making distinctions between to 45 PTO hp tractors because one is a "compact" and the other is a "utility", I just don't get it. There really isn't that much difference. Same thing with folks battling between a 31 or a 34 or a 37 hp tractor - you might use a 5' instead of a 6' bushhog, but the tractor will still do the job. And there isn't a tremendous difference in a 55 hp tractor and an 82 hp tractor - I would use one for the same application as the other, if I had the implement to fit it. Tasks are important in sizing up a tractor, but it boils down to most tractors can do most things.

Sorry for the long post, but I've just seen so many of these ridiculous comparisons on here that I was about to bust (I feel better now). I have to bow to Bob's superior knowledge of the tractor world and undereducated or uneducated customers (heck, based on my insane classification system of tractors, I might be one, since I didn't know I shouldn't mow my yard with a 45 hp tractor because it's not the one that is best suited for the job), so there is plenty of room for dissecting the differences between one brands 24 hp tractor and another's 26 hp tractor - that is a completely differenct tractor built with completely different tasks in mind.

 

[HODAK]

rtimgray,

I think your post made a lot of sense. There is such a broad range of opinions on here and it can get confusing at times. First time tractor buyer/owner, lifetime farmer, part time farmer, salesperson, dealer, etc, ect. All of these individuals have an opinion that will vary no matter what the subject is. They can all be correct in one aspect or another.

Most buyers post in one forum on here mainly because they have a brand in mind. They may mention other brands, but they are looking for input on the one they really wanted all along. Just my opinion.

 

[rtimgray]

"Most buyers post in one forum on here mainly because they have a brand in mind. They may mention other brands, but they are looking for input on the one they really wanted all along. Just my opinion."

That's pretty much my opinion as well.